Gym training: does it help or hurt BE shooting?

I'm curious what, if any, gym work would help with bullseye shooting.  Part of this is whether some exercises could worsen hold, etc.  I've read that heavy muscle training is not recommended, but why would increased strength hurt shooting? (I've personally noticed my wobble is bad for about a day after a full work-out, but not sure what it does long term)

Here are some that come to mind (including ones I do):

1. Weight training to increase upper body strength and endurance (free weights, machines, etc)
2. Weight training to increase leg strength
3. Cables and other machines to strengthen core and abdominal muscles
4. Cardio to increase endurance
5. Stretching to increase flexibility
6. Exercises to improve balance (standing on one leg, standing on balance board or similar)

What are your thoughts and experiences?

Thanks

JHH

Help.

It helps so long as it is done correctly and approached with the right mind set. For example if you are going to do an exercise, say push ups for example, do them correctly. If you are going to do cardio, do an appropriate amount.

I just look at the current military shooters online at Perry…

Core.

Isometric exercises are also very helpful, as learning fine motor control is equally important. 
Here's an example from Pardini: Isometric Training & Pistol Shooting – Pardini USA
And then there's the mental training...LOL

Back in the day 50 years ago, I think I was at my best condition.  No real weight training.  I was on my college tennis team, and played many other games as well.  Handball, racquet ball, volleyball, badminton.  Coach Miller had me do the rope on a stick roll up and down, pushups, and holding the spine of a phone book in offhand position.  I ran the hills some too, but not a lot.  There I met up with several runners like Prefontain and others.  I was also the intramural director at the community college.  And had access to all sorts of training stuff. Most of my shooting was with a High Standard 7.25" gun gripped with a homemade freepistol grip.  And next most was an OMM 38 SAO.  This was in the early 70s.  It was primarily slowfire thinking 1976 Montreal.  By the middle 70s, life, work, coaches health, my love life, and still going back on occasion to Dad's veterinary practice to do surgery, xrays, and kennel boy work.  My advancement slowed a lot.

In general, yes. I suppose that it depends upon the individual (past injuries, etc.) and of course what kind of physical training you do. Most successful top bullseye shooters, don't look anything like a Michelangelo statues. Muscle tone, not bulk, as well as, endurance and flexibility would seem to be the best goals. Swimming would be a good all around activity. I used to jog, do light weights, holding exercises and grip exercises. Just as important is dry firing, match shooting and, especially in the upper classes, mental training. As Jack alluded to, it is pretty hard to carve time out for an average guy or gal who isn't getting paid to shoot. If you seriously want to improve, I think that one needs to do something every day towards developing bullseye pistol skills, even if it is listening to a tape or reading a part of a relevant book. Time is your worst enemy. I believe I read where Harry Reeves said that one summer he put a new roof on his house. No nail guns, back then, just hammer and nails. He said after that experience, he shot better than he had ever shot before. I would have probably had to be hauled away in an ambulance!

I think tennis helped me a lot as my shoulder was strong in front and back (forehand and backhand strokes)   Of course being 20 something helps too.  Not to mention eyes like and eagle back then.

One thing I have mentioned many times here is about gripping hard.  You can grip like choking the chicken.  Or like holding the phonebook spine out in shooting position.  I choose the phonebook.    The stick and rope roll up is good too.  Make sure you alternate the rope off the front of the stick and off the back of the stick.  You need to tone the forearm muscles that hold the wrist back, that hold the wrist down, and that hold the wrist (thumbs) up.  Working with stretchy rubber tubes is also very good. 



Tennis, anyone?

My first roll-up exercise equipment was a gallon water jug (adjustable for weight) and a strong length of chord stapled to a sawed off piece of wooden broom handle.

A slightly different perspective. Going to the gym and working out takes a good mental discipline, shooting also requires a good mental discipline. That also should be considered.

How can any exercise hurt anything?

funski wrote:How can any exercise hurt anything?

Exercise needs to be targeted to the particular activity for optimum payoff. That's why every team has trainers, sports medicine doctors and sports psychologists that train their athletes differently. General cardiopulmonary exercise like walking and swimming probably don't hurt the vast majority of people. Improper weight training can hurt, as well as, overdoing or doing improperly, just about any exercise.

Improved health, mentally and physically, has no downside.

Just be smart about it and don’t strain yourself before major matches. Cardio is more important than strength (heartbeat regulation and low RHR). I’ve shot better and noticed a MUCH tighter wobble (on good days, my dot stays 9-ring on the long line) since transitioning to “moderate walking and stretching” as my primary forms of exercise.

I’m not really in a good position to comment on whether you should engage in strength training since 20 years of athletic training (college rugby, powerlifting, triathlons, CrossFit competitions, etc.) resulted in an aortic aneurysm as well as my femurs and pelvis being deformed by two decades of constant stress fractures. I need hip replacements but the surgery is now complicated because of my heart issues and implants. Big biceps and abs in my 20s were not worth being disabled in my 30s.

Go to Perry and look at the military teams and the former military guys now shooting civ teams. None of them are bulky. The only guys with any serious muscle tone are the ones coming from SF. The majority are just generally “in shape”—either slim or “chubby but could run a couple miles and do pushups.” I doubt most of those guys are doing any intense or specific weight room work.

I think what everyone is saying is it is more important to be "physically fit" than a tower of strength. Targeted exercises, i.e. light weights and grip exercises can help hold and endurance of the tiny muscles one needs in this sport. There are some good discussions on this in Gil Hebard's "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury".

Nobody's mentioned the potato bag exercise yet?

funski wrote:How can any exercise hurt anything?

Science Alert!

I have experienced a good example of a poor muscle condition.  In these later years of not shooting much like I used to, my forearm strength for wrist extension has weakened more than for wrist flexion.  Strength for radial deviation is not there at all. These days my natural grip and wrist position now points the gun to the left.  I should work on my extension muscle group.   (I googled those terms  

You need a balance of strength in the forearm.  And also in front and back of the shoulder.

john bickar wrote:Nobody's mentioned the potato bag exercise yet?

"And then I put a potato in it"

A very enlightening topic! Thank you!

Shoulder exercises such as vertical presses with dumbells, (lighter weight, lots of reps) holding weights out at arms length, (shooting position) and just dry fire have helped with wobble.

Used a "Powerball" quite a bit for a while as well for wrist and forearm, not to mention wrist curls with dumbells, both with palm up, and palm down with forearm rested on a knee. Both helped quite a bit to relive Tendonitis, and it has never come back.

I'll second the stick and weight roll-up (and slowly down) until the forearms scream. This was the classic hockey strength-building exercise when we were younger. Also the BodyBlade for shoulder capsule muscles. Very helpful as well, and no impingement issues that one can get with weights.