How to size 38 Spl cases

I have seen many of the discussions here re: sizing 38 Spl cases for 148 DEWC and HBWC's and the potential problems with swaging down soft lead bullets.  My Dillon SDB uses the standard Dillon die, which typically sizes on the small diameter side.  The loaded rounds shoot pretty well.  I have experimented with several mods to size the cases less, that is, to a larger diameter.

The Lee 38 Spl final size/crimp die will size empty cases to 0.379".  This diameter chambers in SW revolvers and works well with Remington 148 HBWC, which are typically oversize at say 0.361" +/-.  However, it is too large for 0.358" bullets which fit too loosely and haven't enough neck tension.  It does work well with military cases that have thicker brass, and 0.358" bullets work there.

I would like to find a similar size die for the SDB, but Dillon doesn't appear to make one.  Some suggest using a 38 Super die, but that would seem too large at 0.384"  The 380 Auto die should size to 0.374", which is the case size.  A 0.374" Lee die could be turned down to SDB die dimensions.  The current die ring could be polished larger but I don't have capabilities to do that accurately.

Question:  How can I minimally size 38 Spl cases to 0.379" or so in a SDB?  P.S., I am cheap and am not looking for custom made dies!  Thx.

As you noted, the 38 Super size die is too big, and will size the brass less than a 38 Special die.

A 380 Auto die will size the brass down more than a 38 Special size die. The normal specs for 38 Special cases are .379 - .006. The .379 is the MAX SAAMI case dimension, and factory loaded and sized cases are almost always smaller than that. I measured a factory Remington 38 Special and it was .374 below the bullet and about .375 at the bullet.

The 380 Auto brass has a SAAMI size of .374 - .006. The MAX is .374 and since the size die will size it under that, it will be smaller. I measured a factory 380 round and it was .371, and my handloads, sized with a Dillon die on a 650 measure .370".

Hope this helps.

Thx S148 - I should be more careful working from memory.  My SDB, depending on brass spring sizes to 0.372 +/-.  A 380 die likely would be too small.  I have one, I could check.

I am using a 38 Super sizing die when loading Magnus HBWC bullets, no issues at all with my 52. Might be overkill but I am also using the HBWC expander from PhotoEscape and 100% RP brass. I’m not a Master class shooter by any means but these loads shoot better than any I have ever produced.

Thanks Kp.  Dies size to something less than maximum spec, which varies with vintage, make etc. It looks like 38 Super works for you. The question I should have asked, to which I could not find an answer is:

What is the OD of a 38 Spl case sized with a Dillon carbide die for 38 Super?

(Sounds like a scene from Monty Python's "Bridge of Death" Uhh...  I don't know, standard or Comp? )

Thx!

OK, this is taxing my brain cells, but I went through all of this a couple years ago in trying to accomplish about the same as you are doing. 

I dug through some stuff and found a Lee ".38 Auto" sizing die that was still in the packaging, meaning that I tried it and it didn't do what I wanted it to do. I measured it and the ID of the carbide ring is .381". I then took a fired .38 Sp case from my 52-2 that measures about .3805" and it will push into the .381 sizing die with a bit of force. I grabbed a non-Remington HBWC and can push it into the case flush with the case mouth with just finger pressure, so the ".38 Auto" die wasn't the answer.

I remember now, that as an experiment, I made a hardened steel sizing die for use with .358" HBWC and it worked well. Being hardened steel, and just an experiment, I didn't really use it. I ended up once again going the great circle route, and am back to using a standard .38 Sp sizing die and a PhotoEscape HBWC expander. The expander likes to stick in the cases though, which is where the whole experiment originated...trying to find something to keep the expander from working too hard.

DA/SA wrote:OK, this is taxing my brain cells, but I went through all of this a couple years ago in trying to accomplish about the same as you are doing. 

I dug through some stuff and found a Lee ".38 Auto" sizing die that was still in the packaging, meaning that I tried it and it didn't do what I wanted it to do. I measured it and the ID of the carbide ring is .381". I then took a fired .38 Sp case from my 52-2 that measures about .3805" and it will push into the .381 sizing die with a bit of force. I grabbed a non-Remington HBWC and can push it into the case flush with the case mouth with just finger pressure, so the ".38 Auto" die wasn't the answer.

I remember now, that as an experiment, I made a hardened steel sizing die for use with .358" HBWC and it worked well. Being hardened steel, and just an experiment, I didn't really use it. I ended up once again going the great circle route, and am back to using a standard .38 Sp sizing die and a PhotoEscape HBWC expander. The expander likes to stick in the cases though, which is where the whole experiment originated...trying to find something to keep the expander from working too hard.

What method and ingredients are you using to clean your .38 SPL brass?

I dry tumble in corn cob.

I see where you are going there! I despise wet tumbling with SS pins.

The crimp holds the bullet in place. Works for me. BTW, the 52 has a smaller groove diameter so it can tolerate some swaging during seating. The 1911 -38s have a bigger groove and can not tolerate it.

bruce martindale wrote:The crimp holds the bullet in place. 

True. 

As long as the projectile doesn't fall into the case below the case mouth when seating!

I have also seen where crimping one that is flush with the case mouth forces it deeper into the case.

sharkdoctor wrote:
The Lee 38 Spl final size/crimp die will size empty cases to 0.379".

I suggest you getting second die like this one, remove crimp portion and use it as a sizer.  There are +/- (0.003" in my experience) variations with Lee dies, so you might need to check a few and select most appropriate one    I don't remember if on Lee FCDs one can substitute crimp with decapper, have to check.  Otherwise you'll need to decap separately.

Keep in mind that my 38WC expanders don't work on SDB presses!

AP

I made a Lee FCD into a decap/ resize die by finding a bolt to fit , cutting it off, and drill/tap center for a decap rod

I removed the crimp ring from the Lee die and used it to size cases to 0.379" OD.  They can then be run thru the SDB sans sizing die.  I am seeking a die that fits the SDB to save those steps.

on different forum the use of a super 38 die is considered the great method of 38 wadcutters.. 

Issue is each lot of brass will have different wall thickness. 

After i use the last of my handloads up, i plan on simply insert bullets into unsized fired cases, and hitting with the roll crimp. and see what happens

One of the greatest downfalls of the SDB is that it only uses Dillon dies.
I myself load 38's on a Lee single stage. The cheapest I could find.
I use Lee 4-die sets for 158 SWC and 148 HBWC.
Two different loads, two different set ups.

Also grabbed a few bags of new Starline brass when I could afford it. They resize great.

I realize this may not be the answer you were hoping for, but it does work.
Good luck