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Post by Motorcycle_dan on Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:42 am

Thought much about this and think I finally understand what my point is trying to convey.
This is my opinion on how to improve marksmanship skills and those factors influencing your rate of improvement.

Trigger control
Trigger mechanics (style of trigger roll or smoothness)
Being able to call your shot.
Sight alignment
Grip (consistency and strength)
Shot process, consistency and valid to shoot a 10
Eye sight
Physical endurance
Accurate Ammunition (group size, and function tolerance)
Accurate Pistol (Group size and function tolerance)
Diet on match day
Weight of trigger release.
Stance (including elbow and wrist position)
Sight picture

Tossing out my opinion on what is important and what helped me the most.
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Post by Rob Kovach on Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:20 am

Mental program should be right below trigger control IMO.  See my post in commercial row about Lanny Bassham's book "With Winning in Mind".
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Post by Jack H on Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:05 pm

I put stability ability first, or at least equal.  And seeing and knowing what you want to see at the gun.  Your mental coolness, knowledge, stability ability, AND trigger control are all important. 

Because stability has everything to do with screwing your mind and ruining trigger control.  Most of the rest of Dan's list is supporting cast to the performance.
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Post by Motorcycle_dan on Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:15 pm

Rob, I would not argue the mental program importance.  But I wouldn't recognize a mental program if it fell out of my gun box onto my toe. 

Jack, Yes stability is important but not sure that I work toward stability.  I work out on a regular basis and work core muscles that improve my stability.  For rifle shooting I feel stability is more important.  Not so much for pistol, just conditioning that allows you to consistently in grip that allows you to return to the target.

All good points, and saying the same thing.  I need to read Lanny's book.
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Post by DavidR on Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:41 pm

"I have found that many shooters think entirely too much." Brian Zins Order of importance. 2309170423
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Post by Rob Kovach on Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:45 pm

...and because that's so important, you need a mental program to make sure that your brain isn't screwing up all of the fundamentals that are on Dan's list by over thinking.
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Post by kczerwin on Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:08 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:Mental program should be right below trigger control IMO.  See my post in commercial row about Lanny Bassham's book "With Winning in Mind".

Gotta agree with Rob.  Excellent book.  Answered a lot of questions.

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Post by davekp on Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:23 am

Motorcycle_dan wrote:Thought much about this and think I finally understand what my point is trying to convey.
This is my opinion on how to improve marksmanship skills and those factors influencing your rate of improvement.

Trigger control
Trigger mechanics (style of trigger roll or smoothness)
Being able to call your shot.
Sight alignment
Grip (consistency and strength)
Shot process, consistency and valid to shoot a 10
Eye sight
Physical endurance
Accurate Ammunition (group size, and function tolerance)
Accurate Pistol (Group size and function tolerance)
Diet on match day
Weight of trigger release.
Stance (including elbow and wrist position)
Sight picture

Tossing out my opinion on what is important and what helped me the most.

1. Trigger
2. Trigger
3. Trigger
4. Sight alignment
5. Everything else

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Post by Jack H on Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:56 am

Motorcycle_dan wrote:Rob, I would not argue the mental program importance.  But I wouldn't recognize a mental program if it fell out of my gun box onto my toe. 

Jack, Yes stability is important but not sure that I work toward stability.  I work out on a regular basis and work core muscles that improve my stability.  For rifle shooting I feel stability is more important.  Not so much for pistol, just conditioning that allows you to consistently in grip that allows you to return to the target.

All good points, and saying the same thing.  I need to read Lanny's book.


The stability I mean is at the gun or more precisely at the sights.  The gun should be as motionless as possible.  Front and back sights perfectly aligned with each other.  Wobble at absolute minimum.  Yeah yeah, but I said as possible.  Actually if you are really looking at the sight and keeping it perfectly aligned with the rear, your minimum wobble won't be noticed, and will be put from mind.  The bull will be just part of the framing of the sight picture.  Your body stabilities at your core, or from your ankles etc. are important and necessary, but still only a means of achieving the gun stability that I mean.  I reality it is just a tweak on saying sight alignment and trigger control.
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Post by dronning on Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:44 am

Bad trigger control could put you off paper.  So could a weak or loose grip.  Sight alignment or sight picture slightly off will give you a plus 1 or 2 rings out. 

JMHO
If everything else is right and you have an 8 ring wobble you should be shooting Expert to Master scores.  9 ring solid Master and High Master.
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Post by Joe L on Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:44 pm

For a new bullseye shooter like myself, it's all trigger control using a single hand grip compared to a two handed grip.  And getting used to a red dot sight.  Right now I have a LOT of details to work on!

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Post by Colt711 on Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:52 pm

Joe L wrote: getting used to a red dot sight. 

Joe
Joe, you should consider shooting with open sights until you can pick up a dot sighted pistol and immediately shoot considerably better or possibly it should be easier to shoot good shots and strings.
Should you do so, concentrate eyesight on the front sight and keep continuous and increasing pressure on the trigger.

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Post by Joe L on Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:37 pm

Too late. Eyesight favors the red dot so I have them on the 22 and 9mm already. No problem with the 22, but I need to learn to get the sight back on the bull when the 9mm recoils.
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