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Recommended drop-in trigger kit?

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Gene Hedberg
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gunr
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Post by beeser Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:33 pm

Which drop-in trigger kit is recommended for a Range Officer?  There seems to be a large selection of these kits out there and would like some help deciding which one to get.

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Post by LenV Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:06 pm

This is the last kit you will ever need. With lots of personal satisfaction.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/743549/power-custom-series-1-stoning-fixture-with-guide
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Post by Jerry Keefer Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:36 pm

Times have changed...
Check out Chuck Warner's Total Radius Hammer and Sear set. It is also marketed by John Harrison.. Google should turn up both..Drop in is a very subjective term..Angles are difficult to work with, and perfect, without the aid of advanced measuring instruments. Chuck's system cuts a perfect radius on the sear face.. Completely neutral..It neither lifts nor drops the hammer, as it moves out of engagement,  because the sear face is rotating on the exact axis of the sear pin center. You can buy the stoning fixture from Chuck or John.. One feature of this type of fixture, is that it eliminates short sears.. Short sears are a very common problem..This is the fixture I use to cut the radius in a surface grinder..
Recommended drop-in trigger kit? DSC03934_zpsd8d09c7b
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Post by beeser Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:50 pm

OldMaster64 wrote:This is the last kit you will ever need. With lots of personal satisfaction.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/743549/power-custom-series-1-stoning-fixture-with-guide
Out of stock but I take it that the suggestion is to modify the existing parts instead of having them already done in kit form.  I thought about that but isn't it recommended that these parts be replaced anyway on a Range Officer?  If so, I figured why not get them already modified.  Please let me know if I'm wrong on this.  The other dilemna is which jig to get.  As with the one mentioned above many are out of stock, I assume the best ones.  I have a bunch of stuff already coming from Brownell's, a lot of which are on back order.  Maybe I should include a jig and just wait for it to arrive before moving forward.  Thoughts and suggestions?

Side note - I've been spending a lot of time lately on Brownell's looking for tools, parts, supplies, etc. and have found many of their items on backorder.  Has there been a surge in demand for this stuff lately or has this always been the case with Brownell's?

PS  Posted after Jerry's comment.  Apparently this jig is also on backorder with Brownell's.  Also, it appears that Warner's website domain has expired.  Is there another source for this jig?

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Post by LenV Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:10 pm

Roddy Toyota told me that He likes to build match pistols out of Range Officers because they are actually built here (USA) and made with quality parts. He does a trigger job using stock parts. That would be good enough for me.

Len  ( blame the US tax codes for low inventories at years end)
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Post by dronning Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:41 pm

If you are interested in a roll trigger there is no better drop in than the one KC builds.  I have 3 of the drop in kits.  One on my Nelson conversion, one on my Wad gun and one on my Hardball gun.  I also have KC's roll trigger on the 9MM he built me but he installed that one!

- Dave

http://www.kcskustomcreations.com/competition-trigger-components.html
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Post by bking Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:59 pm

OldMaster64 wrote:Roddy Toyota told me that He likes to build match pistols out of Range Officers because they are actually built here (USA) and made with quality parts. He does a trigger job using stock parts. That would be good enough for me.

FWIW Roddy had to replace the sear on my Range Officer to get a good trigger job on it. 

He did a really great job of it though.

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Post by beeser Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:09 pm

dronning wrote:If you are interested in a roll trigger there is no better drop in than the one KC builds.  I have 3 of the drop in kits.  One on my Nelson conversion, one on my Wad gun and one on my Hardball gun.  I also have KC's roll trigger on the 9MM he built me but he installed that one!

- Dave

http://www.kcskustomcreations.com/competition-trigger-components.html
I still plan to try this on one of my ROs for comparison to a crisp trigger break.  So far the ROs are working out to be good platforms for trying out different things and developing my skills.

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Post by Axehandle Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:44 am

Cylinder and Slide drop in kits have worked well for me.  FWIW I'd go to KC for my paper punching 1911s.

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Post by BE Mike Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:22 am

I also like the Cylinder & Slide drop in kit. That being said, unless you are quite familiar with the way the parts interact, you may get in over your head, because the parts aren't truly drop in. I found that there is some fitting required.
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Post by Guest Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:56 pm

dronning wrote:If you are interested in a roll trigger there is no better drop in than the one KC builds.  I have 3 of the drop in kits.  One on my Nelson conversion, one on my Wad gun and one on my Hardball gun.  I also have KC's roll trigger on the 9MM he built me but he installed that one!

- Dave

http://www.kcskustomcreations.com/competition-trigger-components.html
+1

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Post by DeweyHales Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:59 am

I also fully endorse KC's roll trigger kit.
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Post by Motorcycle_dan Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:13 am

I would be surprised at a true drop in kit.  I guess it is possible but for the most part each side of the sear has to release at the exact same momnet.  The metal has to be tough.  Too hard and the surface can crack.  Too soft and the engagement surface will develop grooves.  Doug Hall does my trigger work and I am blessed that he lives close.  I've seen some of KC's work and that would be a good choice if you didn't live within a hundred miles of central Ohio.
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Post by gunr Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:07 pm

Cylinder & Slide gets my vote. It was a true drop in with no fitting needed in my RO.
Trigger pull dropped from 4.5 to 3.5 lbs., and I have all my original parts.
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Post by beeser Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:37 pm

gunr wrote:Cylinder & Slide gets my vote. It was a true drop in with no fitting needed in my RO.
Trigger pull dropped from 4.5 to 3.5 lbs., and I have all my original parts.
gunr
Which kit did you get?

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Post by gunr Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:05 am

Beeser, I bought the Supermatch # 6k133n20 from Brownell's @ $145.
A DVD from Clark's helped me make sure I got it back together right.
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Post by LongSlide Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:08 pm

I have two springfields and replaced both's sear and hammer.  The hammer hooks on each were about  0.018" and the sears were too short to use on the Harrison TR jig; although, I tried and couldn't get the pull weight below 4.5 lbs without the hammer following.  So,  I gave up on that.

On one, I put in a Cylinder & Slide 3.5 match set and I can say that is one light, crisp trigger. If that is what you're looking for, you can't go wrong.  

On the other, I was looking for a roll trigger and went with KC's sear and hammer (CMP compatible hammer) and got a wonderful roll trigger set to 4 lbs 2 oz. 

Depending on what you want, one or the other will deliver.

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Post by Froneck Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:48 am

One main problem with drop in hammer/sear trigger assemblies is that so many 1911 frames have been made that the location of holes for the pins holding the hammer and sear are not all the same. Compounding the problem is hole size and squareness. Having a large pin hole allows the hammer and/or sear to move and if the holes are not square but go through the frame at a slight angle and worse if one is in one direction and the other another direction will negate the alignment and angle supposedly set in a "Drop In". I have seen all of the above and when a "Drop In" type hammer/sear set it installed it does little to change anything and can make the feel worse if the hammer/sear set in the gun at one time has been worked on by a good smith. Because most of the "Drop In" sets are kinda expensive I feel you are better off taking the gun to a good smith that knows what he is doing with a Competition 1911. It may cost a little more but not as much as if the "Drop In" does not help. I have 4 Optical Comparators and 3 Toolmakers Microscopes not to mention just about every Starrett measuring device made. I can measure to .0001" the width of type on paper and just about everything else. Using gauge pins and optics I have seen the holes vary quite a bit even in 2 frames purchased for the same vender at the same time so that chances that a "Drop In" will give you the perfect pull your looking for is slim.

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Post by Rob Kovach Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:40 am

Chances for "Perfect" may be slim, but better than factory, definitely.  Can the drop-in C&S or KC Custom be "good" or "great"?  I've seen it done quite a few times.  There is a KC Customs roll trigger drop in gun at my club that is so smooth a roll that I CAN'T FEEL IT MOVING and it's TOO SMOOTH for my taste.

There is nothing stopping you from trying a drop-in in your frame and seeing how it turns out.  There's nothing stopping you from bringing it to a gunsmith later to stone it up to your liking if it doesn't turn out the way you hoped.
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Post by Froneck Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:10 am

I guess it's subject to what you feel is good. Some think their pull is great while I don't like it. It also seems to go with the classification, I've heard Marksman rave about their triggers that Master or H.Masters think is terrible. If for some reason you have a gun with loose pins and set at an angle the "Drop-In" will do nothing. So much will have to be altered that you would have been better off with stock un-matched hammer and sear. The trigger is an important part of shooting yet it seem the least important to new shooters. Henderson had just broke a record, the armorer asked how he like the pistol he built, Henderson replied the trigger was lousy! Heck you just broke a record the armorer replied, yeah said Henderson but I could have done better!
 The Shooter has to realize what is goal is, to be a good shooter or a gunsmith! Too often the new shooter spends more time working on the gun than working to improve his shooting skills. The secret to becoming a Master or High Master is get a GOOD ACCURATE GUN with the Type Trigger you LIKE and learn to shot it. Too many times I've seen here someone say the gun will not quite shoot  for example 3" but they can't hold 3" anyway so it's good enough! NO!!!! Now your shooting 6" and haven't a clue why! There can never be an AH HA moment and if there is it can be false.
 As to better than Factory, sure! They do almost the same, drop in a hammer and sear taken from a pile of them! But then who will try to shoot an NRA Bulls-Eye match with a stock US made gun? That's why so many use Import Target Pistols.

Frank

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Post by gunr Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:47 pm

I agree there is nothing better than having a master gunsmith work on your pistol but I'm not ready to buy a $2500 Baer and still have the trigger worked like my buday did.
I also wouldn't buy a Ferrari to learn how to drive.
My R O with a C & S trigger shot a 96 in 50' slow fire the other night, and for a guy who shoots 30 rounds a week I'm fine with that.
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Post by LongSlide Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:57 pm

The way I see it, the trigger feel is subjective to the shooter.  If a new shooter goes to a master bullseye gunsmith, what are they going to ask for? Crisp like a glass rod breaking?  Or smooth and rolling?  I mean, how would they know what works for them unless they tried it and got some substantial trigger time.  You just can't walk up and dry fire someone's gun a few times and know what is going to work for you.

With that said, I can honestly say that my C&S fire-control group delivers a consistent, light, crisp like a glass rod breaking trigger.  Many other shooters have commented on that trigger being excellent after shooting my longslide (everyone wants to try the longslide Smile ).  And I've come to appreciate the KC roll trigger now as it really helps me to recognize when I'm jerking the trigger.

With modern CNC production of firearms today from the likes of SA, tolerances are such that you are more likely to get an experience like mine than a failure.

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Post by Rob Kovach Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:44 pm

Frank,

I just don't want newer shooters to believe that the only way to Master is with 3x $3000+ guns.  It's just not the case.
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Post by Froneck Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:31 pm

I never said the way to Master is buying a Les Baer or higher end guns that sell for $5000, I don't have one either! Simply put you can't buy your way into the Master Class and that includes the Drop In triggers. What is needed is a Gun the will shoot a 10 if it's pointed at the 10 in something like a Ransom Rest. A little work by someone that knows what their doing on a used production gun will be all that is needed. Simply put if the gun will not shoot there is no way the shooter will learn. When everything is done right and the shot is in the 10 the shooter will experience what is known as the AH HA moment. Basically he realizes that he as preformed in a manner that will result in a 10 and says AH HA that's how it's done and a compiling of AH HA moments will propel him into the master class. 

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Post by Rob Kovach Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:37 pm

If your stock RO trigger is crap, a drop in trigger might be able to get you there.
KC Crawford's and C&S drop-in triggers are quality items and I have observed good examples of each kit.

Frank, have you ever installed either kit and had them turn out worse than the trigger that came out?
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