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45 or 9mm for service pistol matches

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JIMPGOV
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45 or 9mm for service pistol matches Empty 45 or 9mm for service pistol matches

Post by f4wso Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:57 pm

Hi everyone. I am new to the forum and have shot BE in years past. I would like to get back into BE again with the goal of becoming distinguished. My question is about the Baretta vs the 1911. I want to buy a service pistol and want to know if the Baretta is easier to shoot than the 1911 and has the civilain work on these guns reached the level to make them competitive. I know the AMU makes them competitive but could I get this work done and would it be reasonable cost wise. I would not shoot a m1 or m1a today to get a rifle badge because of the advancements with the ARs. Are we there with the 9mm and is the reduced recoil an advantage with the pistol?

Thank

John Mason

Sacramento, Ca

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45 or 9mm for service pistol matches Empty Re: 45 or 9mm for service pistol matches

Post by Rob Kovach Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:52 pm

I like the 1911. 9mm recoil is snappier. Chamber pressures are higher in 9mm. My 1911 is EIM legal so I can use it for CF-.45 and leg--I just unbolt the rail. I have fewer triggers to learn that way. Think of all the money you'll save by having fewer match pistols!
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Post by DavidR Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:53 am

Im not a fan of the beretta, ive had one and it was a pain to reload for compared to the 1911. Also the cost of a competitive 9mm is more than a good 1911.
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Post by Steve B Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:28 pm

I'd really like to shoot a tuned Beretta.

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Post by Founder Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:31 am

You will not see a reduced recoil in a 9mm. That bullet requires a lot of pressure to be accurate. You can load down a 45 for the short line and be accurate. Suck it up for the long line you have 10 minutes!

Seriously I tried the M9 and did not care for the function or accuracy. Little work that can be done to make a true match grade trigger, the 1911 on the other hand.....
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45 or 9mm for service pistol matches Empty Kinda like I thought

Post by f4wso Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:56 am

Thanks for your replies. I have read some articles about the military and the work they have done on the 9mms. I just wanted to make sure that everyone had not switched to 9mms before I bought a hard ball gun.

John Mason

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Post by BE Mike Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:29 am

I went distinguished shooting an old Clark accurized Colt pre-series 70, 1911 using factory hardball. I subsequently had Tony Kidd build a Beretta from a 92FS Brigadier. The Beretta was far more accurate than the 1911. Although the Beretta had more potential for better scores, I usually shot the same scores as I did with the 1911. Because the Beretta requires high velocities to be accurate, I didn't feel like there was a big advantage in recoil recovery time. I do feel like the Beretta was easier on my elbow.

As with my S&W model 52-1, I feel like the Beretta is a less forgiving pistol than the 1911. What I mean by that is that when a called shot is out of the group it is usually a lot wider than a similarly called shot with the 1911.

I don't find that reloading the 9mm is much more difficult than loading for the .45 ACP. I did find that Atlanta Arms factory match ammo was more accurate at 50 yards than my reloads.

If I had to do it all over again, it would be a tough choice between getting a Beretta or 1911 hardball gun. I would probably go with the Beretta out of the chute.
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Post by DeweyHales Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:01 am

I like the Beretta. For me, I wanted to go Distinguished with the service pistol that is still the service pistol.

I only have 8 more points to go.

My reloads are very accurate. I use Precision Delta 115s and N340. The bullets I load are less expensive than 45 hardball bullets. I also had an easier time finding an accurate 9mm load than I did finding an accurate 45 hard ball load at 50 yards.

It does force you to learn another trigger, but I like the challenge of being able to shoot many guns well.
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Post by gulliver62 Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:48 pm

I tried shooting a Beretta for about 9 months but just couldn't get used to the width of the grip or the trigger pull.

Even after that time, I could still shoot the same with my .45.
I just like the 1911 trigger a lot better.
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Post by JIMPGOV Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:59 am

I HAVE BOTH. A TONY KIDD BERETTA AND A ROCK RIVER HARDBALL. I HAVE FOUND MY HIGHS ARE HIGHER AND MY LOWS ARE LOWER WITH THE BERETTA. I AM MUCH MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE .45. I DID EARN ONE PRESIDENT MEDAL WITH THE KIDD, BUT HAVE EARNED 3 WITH THE .45. I DON'T USE DOWN LOADED AMMO FOR THE 25YD LINE WITH EITHER GUN. TOO MUCH FOR MY SMALL BRAIN TO KEEP TRACK OF WHEN I'M ONE THE LINE. I HAVE NOT SHOT THE KIDD IN SEVERAL YEARS. IT JUST SITS IN THE SAFE. I DO LIKE THE KIDD, BUT I LOVE THE RRA .45. I ALWAYS SHOOT THE RRA .45. AFTER I MADE DISTINGUISHED. I KEEP SHOOTING EVERY BALL MATCH I COULD. MY GOAL IS TO STILL MAKE THE CUT FOR POINTS. WHICH I DO ABOUT EVERY OTHER MATCH. JP

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Post by laguana1984 Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:13 pm

I am talking true experiences, the bad boy that I used back in my shooting days is the Model 1911A1 and I have shot the 9mm but no comparison.I have shot competition for 18 years and pretty well versed on getting distinguished. The key is to look for a .45 caliber that can be tested on on a bench rest to see how the shot group looks before you buy. If this can not be guaranteed then I would not be dropping a nickel on it. I have known Larry at the Bullseye Pistol for along time and we shot together. He builds .45 caliber that are winners and record record holders I can show you the results. Get a hold of Bullseye Pistol Gunsmith and go from there. If you need more info on getting distinguished let me know. I have shot a 880-23x at the Conyers, Georgia with the .45 cal hardball in June 1980 and this other shooting buddy of mine said to me Jim I just shot a 870 I told him that is great since he was on my team I did not want to discourage him thinking he won the match. The joy of shooting hardball with the 45 caliber has no problems on my shoulders or elbows and I am 66 years young. You have to let that .45 cal who his master is and you will get distinguished in a flash, I got distinguished back in 1976 after a year of shooting regularly. So keep in contact by email lived in Las Vegas, Nevada for over twenty years, I just love the sun and heat.

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Post by dan allen Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:14 pm

I shot a 1911 in service pistol matches because it is what I had and it is what most people around here shoot. I personally know only two people shooting a 9mm in leg matches and only one of them is having any luck. The other has sent his back to the maker at least twice and still can't keep all his shots on a repair center at 50 yards.

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Post by Jack H Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:03 am

The secret to Hardball is Practice, practice, practice,.....and then practice some more. Either 45 or M9 will work if you work at it. But it has to be a good pistol to score the 285+ range, and you have to work hard at it. My Roddy made 45 tested 1" with Noslers when new. I never tested it with Sierra 230s. I just shot it with different loads until my practice and the load came together. From 2000 to 2004 I shot hardball a lot! Even cleaned some rapids. I had a callous on the web area of my hand. Even drew blood once in a while. My best EIC was 278x8. Best NMC within a HB 900 was 285. Best legit practice session was 291 (should have saved that one for an EIC. But then there is that mental pressure thing when you can feel your pulse in your earmuffs, and your hands are slick with sweat.)

A couple good loads are 4.8 Titegroup, and up to 5.2 N320. (Check the load data yourself.)

And on the original question, 1911 vs M9- I have both. The M9 is only slightly enhanced. I choose the 45.
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Post by jakuda Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:28 am

Jack H wrote:The secret to Hardball is Practice, practice, practice,.....

A couple good loads are 4.8 Titegroup, and up to 5.2 N320. (Check the load data yourself.)

And on the original question, 1911 vs M9- I have both. The M9 is only slightly enhanced. I choose the 45.

+1. Practice and more practice.... don't just pick up your hardball gun a few times before a distinguished match.
I actually practice with my hardball gun quite a bit for rapid fire
practice, as the heavier trigger pull forces me to waste less time on
the trigger and also amplifies any trigger pull errors.

Regarding loads...Using some military match hardball ammo also works if you can get your hands on some =)
Also, for the short line, one doesn't need a full powered 4.8 titegroup
(or WST). A softer 4.4 (or whatever is the lowest that will cycle your
slide) will help with recoil.

To answer one of the original questions, it's far easier to find a qualified gunsmith to work on a 1911 to get it accurate and competition ready for distinguished matches. There may only be a handful of gunsmiths who are willing to rework a M9/92FS.

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Post by BE Mike Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:50 am

laguana1984 wrote:I am talking true experiences, the bad boy that I used back in my shooting days is the Model 1911A1 and I have shot the 9mm but no comparison.I have shot competition for 18 years and pretty well versed on getting distinguished. The key is to look for a .45 caliber that can be tested on on a bench rest to see how the shot group looks before you buy. If this can not be guaranteed then I would not be dropping a nickel on it. I have known Larry at the Bullseye Pistol for along time and we shot together. He builds .45 caliber that are winners and record record holders I can show you the results. Get a hold of Bullseye Pistol Gunsmith and go from there. If you need more info on getting distinguished let me know. I have shot a 880-23x at the Conyers, Georgia with the .45 cal hardball in June 1980 and this other shooting buddy of mine said to me Jim I just shot a 870 I told him that is great since he was on my team I did not want to discourage him thinking he won the match. The joy of shooting hardball with the 45 caliber has no problems on my shoulders or elbows and I am 66 years young. You have to let that .45 cal who his master is and you will get distinguished in a flash, I got distinguished back in 1976 after a year of shooting regularly. So keep in contact by email lived in Las Vegas, Nevada for over twenty years, I just love the sun and heat.
Hi Champ, I attended a SAFS at Camp Perry many years ago and was fortunate enough to have you as one of the instructors. The book you recommended at the time, "Psycho-Cybernetics", was a help to me with regarding the mental side of bullseye pistol shooting.
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