Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

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Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by budgetbob on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:36 pm

I recently had to replace the barrel in my primary wad gun.  I had a new Barstow barrel, bushing and link fitted.  Prior to the replacement I had no issues with the gun, it would eat any thing I put in it. The problem now is that the new barrel will feed WWC  flawlessly while Federal will not go into battery.  Since I have several thousand rounds of Federal on hand I am looking for a solution to the feeding problem.

 

So far it has been suggested that I

            a.  use emery cloth to polish the chamber

            b.  run the Federal ammo through a sizing die

            c.  run the Federal through a taper crimp

            d.  from a  buddy, "stop using the Federal and give it to me"

 

Your thoughts/opines would be appreciated.

           

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:44 pm

How long will it take you to run (5) rounds thru your taper crimp die?
If that fails you should distribute the "bad" ammo amongst the list members (at least 50 ea) so they could evaluate the issue.  santa
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:45 pm

It's probably not the chamber if it was finish reamed. Assuming standard feed ramp, there should be a gap of approx. 0.030" from frame feed ramp to start of barrel feedramp. Then if only partially chambering it could be transition (roll over point) from ramp to chamber or extractor has too much tension. If same mags they should still work. I'll take your ammo ;-)
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:48 pm

I forgot to mention try dropping a loaded round into chamber. Does it drop in freely and come out freely?
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:13 pm

Whether you reload or not, it doesn't hurt to have a chamber gage on hand.
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by LenV on Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:17 pm

This is a different answer. Everybody polishes the ramp and makes sure the bore is smooth. They also do a plunk test. I think that covers most of the normal stuff. Brand new barrels have very sharp edges. So sharp that if your magazine is not perfect the round will hang up on that very sharp edge on the side of the case. I have found that a little smoothing/rounding of the chamber just enough to remove the sharp edge lets those pesky things feed without hanging up. That may not be your problem but it happened to me on one of my pistols and took me quite awhile to find it. Just another thought.

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:43 pm

LenV wrote:This is a different answer. Everybody polishes the ramp and makes sure the bore is smooth. They also do a plunk test. I think that covers most of the normal stuff. Brand new barrels have very sharp edges. So sharp that if your magazine is not perfect the round will hang up on that very sharp edge on the side of the case. I have found that a little smoothing/rounding of the chamber just enough to remove the sharp edge lets those pesky things feed without hanging up. That may not be your problem but it happened to me on one of my pistols and took me quite awhile to find it. Just another thought.

Len

Len is talking about the roll over point I previously mentioned. As he said it should not be sharp. If your brass is getting a crease in the edge of it during chambering it needs more radius. Some people refer to it as a 3 point bind: breechface (extractor), rollover point (edge of case at transition), and top of chamber (bullet hitting top of chamber)
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by LenV on Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:26 pm

Me again. I wasn't actually talking about the roll over point. I've had that problem also in the past but was usually able to solve it by changing magazines or in my re-loads by changing the OAL. And by making sure it wasn't sharp. Or maybe we are talking about the same thing and I just think about it differently. On one pistol and only when shooting 185 gr J-SWC I was never able to get it to function until I took a dremal tool to the sides of the barrel. Not being a gunsmith I don't know exactly what that spot is called but I know how to use a camera. Smile
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:19 pm

Clear as a bell Len Smile   Good point!
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by jglenn21 on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:29 am

If all else fails a picture of the jam would really help
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by DavidR on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:24 am

try something simple like a mag change, metalform with rounded followers will feed anything if its mag related most times
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by budgetbob on Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:51 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I forgot to mention try dropping a loaded round into chamber. Does it drop in freely and come out freely?
Jon

I did that, WWC and other drop right in.  Federal is about an 1/8" from being fully seated.

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by budgetbob on Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:54 pm

DavidR wrote:try something simple like a mag change, metalform with rounded followers will feed anything if its mag related most times

Tried that WWC will feed in any magazine, Federal won't.

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:12 pm

If Federal match is not fully chambering whoever built the gun did not finish ream the chamber.
So you need to have a gunsmith finish ream the chamber.
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:31 pm

Did you try the non-functional ammo in another barrel?
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Dr.Don on Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:04 am

Agree with Jon.
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Gary Wells on Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:32 pm

FWIW, I have a James Hoag mastergrade longslide built in the early '70's that he fitted a Barsto 6' barrel in, hard-fitted, & the chamber depth is noticeably shorter than other barrels in my other guns. I don't remember trying Federal .45 auto 185 gr jacketed WC match in this particular gun. HTH. I run 185 gr Dardas H&H # 130 "button bullet" in and the rounds have to be about .006 shorter than my other guns.

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Wobbley on Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:25 pm

Sounds like it needs to be finish reamed to get the throats to accept the bullets.
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Gary Wells on Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:32 pm

I suspect that you are correct, Sir, but I am waiting for a convenient time to deal with it. It needs enough other fixes (link staked / but probably replaced), hammer fall to half cock when slide released on an empty chamber, & maybe new barrel / bushing re-fit that I am considering sending it to 1 of our fine on-line smiths.

OP Sorry about the thread hi-jack.

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by jglenn21 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:13 pm

why do folks test a trigger letting the slide slam forward on an empty chamber.  I was always taught never to do that.... 

 
now if it ever does that feeding a round....trouble
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Gary Wells on Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:20 pm

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Sir, biggest gun sin of all. It first happened when I let somebody handle my gun and I thought that he knew enough not to drop the slide on an empty chamber. I noticed that the hammer fell to half cock and wasn't sure whether it should do that or not, and whether that was an indication that something was wrong or could get worse. I asked the instructor about it and he said that it could go auto on me. I personally did not do it, but the other person doing it I couldn't stop in time. I always stick my thumb between the hammer & the slide rear to test the trigger.

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by LenV on Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:47 pm

Different schools I guess. If the hammer won't stay back when you drop the slide what "guarantee" do you have that it will stay back because you have a loaded magazine inserted? We try to make the transition from magazine to barrel so smooth that you don't have any drag at all. I will admit that I have never achieved that zero drag in any of my pistols but I still want that assurance. Like I said just different schools of thought.

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by jglenn21 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:55 pm

always test mine with dummy rounds before ever taking it to the range.. Guess if you have to let the slide go on an empty chamber, holding the trigger back would be a good test.
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by Gary Wells on Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:31 pm

I suspect that the gun was like that when I bought it in about '00. I had never thought about the possibility of it being bad until I saw it. I have probably run about 5000 founds through it over the years. The bad thing about all of this is that I used to go out to Jim Hoags shop 2 or 3 times a year and I could have had it fixed any time back then. He got real sick about 3 or 4 months ago and was in the hospital for a few months and his son closed his shop & sold off all of his tooling.

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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

Post by jglenn21 on Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:03 am

Sorry to hear that.

He built some nice guns back I the 70s.
I knew he still had a shop in CA doing  general smithing

Nothing wrong with simply updating the pistol  a bit.
Much better ignition parts these days. Probably surprise you how well it can shoot
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Re: Feeding issues with factory .45 WWC 185 SWC vs. Fedreal 185 SWC

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