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cdrt
sixftunda
joy2shoot
john bickar
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Explain Reclassification
by KBarth Wed May 31, 2017 9:44 pm
Say that I qualify expert in my minimum required shots. What does it take for me to reclassify as a master and how do I do it? Wasn't sure if it was a total average to reclassify or an average of the last x number of shots
KBarth- Posts : 455
Join date : 2017-05-18
Age : 27
Location : Missouri
Re: Explain Reclassification
by Chris Miceli Wed May 31, 2017 10:37 pm
it takes a min of 360 shots. so it could be 2700 and a 900, or a 2700 and 2700, they will average the 2 matches. its described somewhere in the rule book.
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: Explain Reclassification
by KBarth Wed May 31, 2017 10:40 pm
So say I fire 2 matches, 360 shots and score 815 average, which classifies me as expert. As a hypothetical, if I shoot the next 360 shots in 2 matches, and average 95% or whatever the percent is for master. I go up in classification?
KBarth- Posts : 455
Join date : 2017-05-18
Age : 27
Location : Missouri
Re: Explain Reclassification
by Chris Miceli Wed May 31, 2017 10:47 pm
then you would be a master and the card should be coming in the mail.....only problem is...... from my experience they average it based off when the scores get turned into the NRA, NOT when you shot the match. Sooo just maintain excellent shooting and you'll get the card sooner or later. If you feel like it you can always sign up for a higher classification at the match.
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
john bickar- Posts : 1953
Join date : 2011-07-09
Age : 99
Location : Menlo Park, CA
Re: Explain Reclassification
by joy2shoot Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:31 am
After reading 19.17, I still need some clarification. How would the following example be interpreted by the NRA?
Shooter A fires two consecutive 2700 matches. All scores are turned into the NRA who processes them in the correct chronological order. Shooter A is currently an Expert and their posted scores from the two matches are as follows.
Match 1
.22 - 810
CF - 855
.45 - 855
Match 2
.22 - 855
CF - 855
.45 - 810
Since the rule says
"when scores for not less than 360 shots ... have been recorded ... If the average scores so justifies ... will be reclassified upwards",
would the NRA average all six scores? Resulting in an average of 840? Or would the NRA average each set of 360 shots? Set 1 being 810+855+855+855. Set 2 being 855+855+855+855. And since set 2 averages to 855, Shooter A would be reclassified upward?
Shooter A fires two consecutive 2700 matches. All scores are turned into the NRA who processes them in the correct chronological order. Shooter A is currently an Expert and their posted scores from the two matches are as follows.
Match 1
.22 - 810
CF - 855
.45 - 855
Match 2
.22 - 855
CF - 855
.45 - 810
Since the rule says
"when scores for not less than 360 shots ... have been recorded ... If the average scores so justifies ... will be reclassified upwards",
would the NRA average all six scores? Resulting in an average of 840? Or would the NRA average each set of 360 shots? Set 1 being 810+855+855+855. Set 2 being 855+855+855+855. And since set 2 averages to 855, Shooter A would be reclassified upward?
joy2shoot- Posts : 570
Join date : 2014-08-02
Location : North Carolina
Re: Explain Reclassification
by sixftunda Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:22 am
My interpretation is to look as if your matches are showing in a window. You can only see two matches at a time. Each time you shoot and do not reclassify, the window moves only one match over. When the two scores in the window reclassify you, the window moves two matches. So it will take four matches to move up two classifications.
For example,
If you were an Expert and shot a 2540 and then a 2570, you would not be reclassified.
Your third match is 2620, you move up to Master. That 2620 cannot be used again for you to move up to High Master.
It was explained to me that way by the High Masters of old, and I have never seen it not work that way.
They only look at your grand aggregate for the match, not individual 900's that make up the match. Also keep in mind that their is only ONE person at the NRA doing scores for everyone, rifle and pistol. The staff has been cut way back in recent times. Cards are coming slower than ever.
For example,
If you were an Expert and shot a 2540 and then a 2570, you would not be reclassified.
Your third match is 2620, you move up to Master. That 2620 cannot be used again for you to move up to High Master.
It was explained to me that way by the High Masters of old, and I have never seen it not work that way.
They only look at your grand aggregate for the match, not individual 900's that make up the match. Also keep in mind that their is only ONE person at the NRA doing scores for everyone, rifle and pistol. The staff has been cut way back in recent times. Cards are coming slower than ever.
sixftunda- Posts : 460
Join date : 2012-05-18
Age : 50
Location : North Central Ohio
Re: Explain Reclassification
by cdrt Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:56 am
sixftunda wrote:They only look at your grand aggregate for the match, not individual 900's that make up the match. Also keep in mind that their is only ONE person at the NRA doing scores for everyone, rifle and pistol. The staff has been cut way back in recent times. Cards are coming slower than ever.
Correct. Whether the match director sends in scores on the SR-1 Statistical Office Record card or uses a summary of scores from a program like Tournament, only the number of shots fired and total aggregate are submitted to the NRA; individual matches are not reported.
cdrt- Posts : 782
Join date : 2016-04-12
Location : Amarillo, Texas
Re: Explain Reclassification
by Chris Miceli Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:09 am
[size=15]We will take the last 270 shots + your next shots until it adds up to 360 shots or more and those scores will be averaged. We do not pick out 900 from the 2700 to average, but average both 2700s. This is from that one person who does scores and classifications[/size]
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: Explain Reclassification
by joy2shoot Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:42 am
Thanks sixftunda, that makes sense.
Chris, if I understand what your source is saying, then could a person game the system? For example, lets assume I shot the following
Match 1
.22 - 855
CF - 855
.45 - 855
Match 2
.22 - 855
CF - 810
.45 - 810
Could I write on the scorecard for Match 2 CF and Match 2 .45 that they are NOT to be turned into the NRA, thus resulting in a reclassification because the NRA got Match 1 - 270 shots for 2565 and Match 2 - 90 shots for 855?
Chris, if I understand what your source is saying, then could a person game the system? For example, lets assume I shot the following
Match 1
.22 - 855
CF - 855
.45 - 855
Match 2
.22 - 855
CF - 810
.45 - 810
Could I write on the scorecard for Match 2 CF and Match 2 .45 that they are NOT to be turned into the NRA, thus resulting in a reclassification because the NRA got Match 1 - 270 shots for 2565 and Match 2 - 90 shots for 855?
joy2shoot- Posts : 570
Join date : 2014-08-02
Location : North Carolina
Re: Explain Reclassification
by Wobbley Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Yes, you could game the system. We call it sandbagging.
Wobbley- Posts : 3890
Join date : 2015-02-13
Re: Explain Reclassification
by Chris Miceli Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:04 pm
W
If the match directions listens to the note you wrote yes. I guess you could do a 2700 and a 900, unsure how the 22 only class works...do you specifically label scores for 22 only ? Or you could just sign up for the master or hm class in a match. I know this is all hypothetical but...if you're looking to cheat the system to get a classification card you know you didn't earn that's your business not mine.joy2shoot wrote:Thanks sixftunda, that makes sense.
Chris, if I understand what your source is saying, then could a person game the system? For example, lets assume I shot the following
Match 1
.22 - 855
CF - 855
.45 - 855
Match 2
.22 - 855
CF - 810
.45 - 810
Could I write on the scorecard for Match 2 CF and Match 2 .45 that they are NOT to be turned into the NRA, thus resulting in a reclassification because the NRA got Match 1 - 270 shots for 2565 and Match 2 - 90 shots for 855?
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: Explain Reclassification
by joy2shoot Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:32 pm
Actually, I am trying to understand why the NRA rule is 360 shots and not 540. It seems to me the NRA has left a loop hole in their rule, which could lead to gaming the system.
p.s. Most of the sandbagging I have seen in other sports that use classifications works in the reverse. A person intentionally games the system to keep their rank lower than their actual skill level in order to keep winning their class in a competition.
p.s. Most of the sandbagging I have seen in other sports that use classifications works in the reverse. A person intentionally games the system to keep their rank lower than their actual skill level in order to keep winning their class in a competition.
joy2shoot- Posts : 570
Join date : 2014-08-02
Location : North Carolina
Re: Explain Reclassification
by Chris Miceli Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:38 pm
Double 1800? 22 only 900 before the 22 classification? Maybe a shooter can't do 45 anymore so they shoot 22 and CF onlyjoy2shoot wrote:Actually, I am trying to understand why the NRA rule is 360 shots and not 540. It seems to me the NRA has left a loop hole in their rule, which could lead to gaming the system.
p.s. Most of the sandbagging I have seen in other sports that use classifications works in the reverse. A person intentionally games the system to keep their rank lower than their actual skill level in order to keep winning their class in a competition.
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
CR10X- Posts : 1778
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC
Re: Explain Reclassification
by C.Perkins Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:00 pm
360 shots makes sense if you think about the state and regional matches.
.22+team, CF+team and .45+team = 360 shots total and all get turned in at once.
So as a newbie you could get a classification by only shooting one large match.
.22+team, CF+team and .45+team = 360 shots total and all get turned in at once.
So as a newbie you could get a classification by only shooting one large match.
C.Perkins- Posts : 742
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 59
Location : Surrounded by pines in Wi.
Re: Explain Reclassification
by Kermit Workman Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:58 pm
Each complete match total is used. If you were in a league that shot .22 only and 900 points possible, you could get a Master card with 4 consecutive matches averaging over 855( assuming all were turned in on time)
Scores of 855,855,840 and 855 855 would not get you a master card.
Consecutive scores of 855,855,855 and 855 Would get you a master card.
Scores of 2565 and 2550 would not get you a master card.
Scores of 2560 and 2570 would get you a master card.
Scores of 855,855,840 and 855 855 would not get you a master card.
Consecutive scores of 855,855,855 and 855 Would get you a master card.
Scores of 2565 and 2550 would not get you a master card.
Scores of 2560 and 2570 would get you a master card.
Kermit Workman- Posts : 147
Join date : 2011-06-11
Age : 67
Location : Lenore, WV
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