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Service Pistol Sight Modifications

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Froneck
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Service Pistol Sight Modifications Empty Service Pistol Sight Modifications

Post by Jon Eulette Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:54 am

Ok question for the masses. Can Bo-mar mini-rib rear sight be used for service pistol? It's not a full length sight rib Smile

6.2.2 Approved Service Pistol Modifications

g) Slides may be milled immediately in front of and behind the rear sight 
dovetail slot to aid in securely mounting adjustable rear sights; a cut may 
be made in the rear of the slide to allow for rear sight clearance.

Jon


Last edited by Jon Eulette on Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by james r chapman Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:14 am

I don't think any Dights are allowed!

Lol

What about the Aristocrat sights.
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Post by Jon Eulette Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:25 am

james r chapman wrote:I don't think any Dights are allowed!

Lol

What about the Aristocrat sights.
Smile
That's what I was also wondering; Aristocrats
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Post by desben Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:18 pm

One of those?

Service Pistol Sight Modifications Aristocratesighttriset
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Post by james r chapman Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:29 pm

One of those
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Post by Jon Eulette Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:55 pm

I emailed CMP. We will see!
Jon
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Post by Chris Miceli Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:36 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I emailed CMP. We will see!
Jon
If you can use an LPA I don't see why not an aristocrat. Do they offer any finer elevation and windage adjustment to the bomar style?

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Post by james r chapman Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:34 pm

Chis, they allow 3 independent sight adjustments
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Post by robert84010 Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:35 am

Jon Eulette wrote:I emailed CMP. We will see!
Jon

Jon,
Did you ever get a reply to your email. There is no possible way they could consider the Aristocrat sight a rib but you never know. I remember Jerry saying he used his PPC pistol to shoot EIC matches a long time ago. He had to "discuss" it with the match directors but they let him shoot. I am curious since I have a Baer PPC .45 and would like to use it as a backup or loaner if legal.
Thanks.

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Post by Jon Eulette Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:21 am

Haven't heard anything. I'll message them again.
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Post by JIMPGOV Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:12 pm

THE ARISTOCRAT SIGHTS HAVE TO BE ACCEPTABLE. WHY? IF YOU LOOK AT THE LIST OF APPROVED PISTOL THE S&W PPC9 IS ON THE LIST. THE STANDARD SIGHT ON A PPC9 IS THE ARISTOCRAT 3 POSITION REAR SIGHT. JIM P

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Post by Jon Eulette Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:20 pm

You think bomar mini rib would pass? Not much different than Aristocrat.
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Post by JIMPGOV Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:04 pm

NO I DON'T THINK IT QUALIFIES. 6.2.1.f.  AND RULE 6.2.2. DO NOT SPECIFICALLY ALLOW IT. WHICH IS REQUIRED. JP


Last edited by JIMPGOV on Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I CAN'T SPELL OR TYPE VERY WELL.)

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Post by Jon Eulette Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:47 am

g) Slides may be milled immediately in front of and behind the rear sight dovetail slot to aid in securely mounting adjustable rear sights; a cut may be made in the rear of the slide to allow for rear sight clearance.


Mini-rib requires milling flat in front of dovetail and behind dovetail and uses (4) screws to mount. I think it is legal. Be nice if cmp answered their emails Smile
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Post by Jon Eulette Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:55 pm

Update:
CMP has responded to my question about the Bo-mar Mini-Rib and Aristocrat Tri-Set rear sights. They said both are ILLEGAL for service pistol.
I then today informed them that on page 42 of most recent CMP rules that the S&W PPC 9 which has the Aristocrat Tri-Set rear sight is legal! So when I hear back I will comment again.
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Post by Ghillieman Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:53 am

What a mess.....
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Post by james r chapman Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:38 am

Lol
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Post by Froneck Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:15 am

I'm guessing the CMP will say the S&W PPC 9 sight is factory and that modification is not allowed. Similar to when the DCM would not allow that radius cut just above the extractor as on the Gold Cup to be cut into the standard 1911 slide though the Gold Cup was made Legal in 1982, I also think that the Gold Cup trigger was not allowed to be cut into the standard 1911 frame.

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Post by Jon Eulette Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:23 pm

Here's latest response from CMP. Not exactly what I was expecting.
Jon

Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] FW: pistol

In the rule 6.2.4 Other Approved Service Pistols...

Other Service Pistols listed in Table 3 below may be used in CMP Sanctioned Service Pistol

Matches, provided they comply with Rules 6.2.1 and 6.2.2.

In this table the pistols are approved but they must still comply with the rules.  The Smith & Wesson PPC 9mm may be on the list but it must still comply with rules 6.2.1 and 6.2.2.

Thanks,

Michelle Woods

Thanks for your continued support of the CMP. 
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Post by Tim:H11 Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:34 pm

....that was very helpful of them.
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Post by Jon Eulette Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:55 pm

It was not a clear answer. If it's on approved list you can shoot it. But the other rules negate it. So I'm now under the impression ppc 9mm is not legal.
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Post by james r chapman Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:25 pm

How High do you have to go to get someone that's read and understands their rules???
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Post by Jon Eulette Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:27 pm

james r chapman wrote:How High do you have to go to get someone that's read and understands their rules???
No kidding
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Post by CR10X Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:33 pm

As far as I can tell from my reading on the rules: 

The pistol in question (S&W PPC9) is on the approved list.

(1) There are no items under 6.2.1 that it does not meet as far as I understand. 

(2) There would be no modifications to the pistol (S&W PPC9);  so no items under 6.2.2 apply. (Any approved Service Pistol may have the following specific modifications or alterations:)

Therefore as a strict reading of the rules in order of application, that sight is allowed on the S&W PPC9.

Unfortunately, for the 1911 and others guns adding the sights in question would be a modification.  While it does not clearly state the sights in question cannot be used, the specific wording does tend to indicate that only a "dovetail" mounted adjustable rear sight is allowed.  

6.2.2 g) Slides may be milled immediately in front of and behind the rear sight dovetail slot to aid in securely mounting adjustable rear sights; a cut may be made in the rear of the slide to allow for rear sight clearance. 

(At this point I can add that I cannot find any other applicable sections in the rules, but if anyone knows of anything I have missed, I would like to hear from them.) 

Therefore, it would appears that a Bo-Mar Mini-Rib or Aristocrat Tri-Set rear sight could not be used on any other guns, unless they incorporated the use of a dovetail slot.  If these sights were to incorporate the use of a dovetail slot, then I think the argument could be made that they could be considered an acceptable modification.  

Let the discussion continue......

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Post by james r chapman Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:07 pm

hmmmm, a dovetail adapter utilizing an aristocrat sight.....
hmmm, what would Jerry do?
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