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something to check crimp?

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fc60
Gary Wells
LenV
Aprilian
Ed Hall
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orpheoet
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Post by orpheoet 11/11/2017, 7:53 pm

I recall seeing somebody post a pic of a metal plate with holes from 0.466-0.470 for checking crimp. Is that something that can be bought somewhere? I have a hard time getting accurate measurements with dial calipers.
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Post by Multiracer 11/11/2017, 8:14 pm

Try flipping your case gauge over, insert the lead end, the brass won't enter this end of the gauge and then place your calipers on the face of the case gauge. It will read crimp very precisely.

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Post by Wobbley 11/11/2017, 8:55 pm

Get one of these. 15/32 is 0,4688 inch.  Close enough to .469 or .468.    https://www.zoro.com/century-drill-and-tool-fractional-drill-guage-116-12-in-64120/i/G4080511/feature-product?gclid=CjwKCAiA3JrQBRBtEiwAN7cEGkUjdvKXDHQw8gSZtzgFAbV-PZmdUHgTWZpTqzWFxYN47ipyyKc0bhoCGR4QAvD_BwE
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Post by farmboy 11/12/2017, 10:22 am

Multiracer wrote:Try flipping your case gauge over, insert the lead end, the brass won't enter this end of the gauge and then place your calipers on the face of the case gauge. It will read crimp very precisely.

Excellent tip, thank you. I was pretty close free handing it but your tip makes it a much easier, faster, accurate process.
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Post by Ed Hall 11/12/2017, 10:44 am

I lock the calipers to a setting such as 0.469" and then then see how each round contacts the jaws.

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Post by orpheoet 11/12/2017, 12:02 pm

Multiracer wrote:Try flipping your case gauge over, insert the lead end, the brass won't enter this end of the gauge and then place your calipers on the face of the case gauge. It will read crimp very precisely.
Awesome
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Post by Multiracer 11/12/2017, 6:06 pm

I won't take credit for this. I watched Doug Hall do it and it stuck in my brain.

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Post by Aprilian 11/13/2017, 9:13 am

Multiracer wrote:Try flipping your case gauge over, insert the lead end, the brass won't enter this end of the gauge and then place your calipers on the face of the case gauge. It will read crimp very precisely.
I tried this and beg to differ.   That would work if your caliper jaws were knife-edged.   Most calipers jaws have a parallel sections to avoid damage and crimps are radiused (unless you are using the lightest of crimp to make the side wall perfectly flat over the bullet, which I would argue is not actually a "crimp").    On my loaded cartridge, comparing measuring with the jaws just going over the edge of the case vs. the above method I had .001" difference.   Depending on the shape inside your TC die and your calipers, it could be more or less difference for you.
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Post by LenV 11/13/2017, 9:24 am

At the bottom of this thread is a picture of that bar. Also a bunch of discussion leading to it.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4672-measuring-the-taper-crimp?highlight=measuring+crimp
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Post by Gary Wells 11/13/2017, 10:21 am

How many people & how much $$$ per person would we need get some of those made? Would the original maker be interested? If not would the original maker have a problem if he wasn't interested if we found somebody else to make some up? I would definitely be interested in owning 1. Anybody else?

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Post by orpheoet 11/13/2017, 2:32 pm

Gary Wells wrote:How many people & how much $$$ per person would we need get some of those made? Would the original maker be interested? If not would the original maker have a problem if he wasn't interested if we found somebody else to make some up? I would definitely be interested in owning 1. Anybody else?
I'm interested.
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Post by Aprilian 11/13/2017, 3:15 pm

Gary Wells wrote:How many people & how much $$$ per person would we need get some of those made? Would the original maker be interested? If not would the original maker have a problem if he wasn't interested if we found somebody else to make some up? I would definitely be interested in owning 1. Anybody else?
I'd want to see a drawing first of how the hole entry was designed since we are trying to measure where a truncated cone starts.   In the referenced gauge picture, you can tell that the .476 has a chamfered entry, but I can't tell if the other holes are similarly relieved.  

In my previous example, with my caliper jaw's flat section at about 20 thous (h)   2R=2r+.001"  


something to check crimp? 383px-Truncated_cone.svg
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Post by Multiracer 11/13/2017, 5:02 pm

I think more often than none, what we all seek in "tools or gauges" is a comparison for ourselves, not for the universe.
My calipers as well as many others will measure a crimp difference on my loads. It may be a thou off on someone else's load but I don't care. The measurement was for my own piece of mind.
Some of you guys should have worked for NASA ?

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Post by Gary Wells 11/13/2017, 5:10 pm

Ian: I sort of agree, Sir, however that tool appears to be well thought out & executed. I personally would rather take a chance than ask somebody under same or similar circumstances something that might be taken as an insult to their capability. The idea of holding the case virtually eliminates any concern about holding a drill check perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the bullet in both planes. I think that it might be worth looking into. If nothing else, it will make a great paper-weight.

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Post by Gary Wells 11/13/2017, 5:20 pm

Multiracer wrote:I think more often than none, what we all seek in "tools or gauges" is a comparison for ourselves, not for the universe.
My calipers as well as many others will measure a crimp difference on my loads. It may be a thou off on someone else's load but I don't care. The measurement was for my own piece of mind.
Some of you guys should have worked for NASA ?
Ouch, Sir, that hurt. Just kidding, Multiracer, but I spent 50 years of my life working in some form of quality control, generally some form of mechanical inspection. I can measure & read most forms of measurement tools & inspection tooling & gaging as well as anybody & better than most. And I still think that tool is worth looking into. And i can't even shoot precision like you guys can & do. I hate crimping and for me if there's no flare it's good to go.

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Post by fc60 11/13/2017, 5:44 pm

Greetings,

You can measure the mouth taper crimp with a good hand held micrometer with +/-0.001"

The anvil and stem are quite rigid and cylindrical to each other.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by Multiracer 11/13/2017, 6:14 pm

Guys, I never get my feelings hurt, but the guy was just looking for a simple way to check his crimp !
Too much information becomes way to confusing and some people stop reading. afro Just think this fro is on the cover of GQ ?
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Post by Gary Wells 11/13/2017, 6:15 pm

When using mics a set of blade mics would probably work best as neither of the blades rotate. This would alleviate any attempt of the top micrometer face trying to "walk" off of the measurement/contact point when bringing it down to contact. James R.? Chapman's 50 power optical comparator would be paramount in this type of measurement.

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Post by Gary Wells 11/13/2017, 6:17 pm

Multiracer wrote:Guys, I never get my feelings hurt, but the guy was just looking for a simple way to check his crimp !
Too much information becomes way to confusing and some people stop reading.  afro  Just think this fro is on the cover of GQ ?
Ron
Ron: I was just busting chops, Sir, I am really too old to get me feelings hurt.

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Post by Multiracer 11/13/2017, 6:31 pm

Optical comparator.....see what I mean ? For a friggin 45 acp


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Post by Jack H 11/13/2017, 7:29 pm

I use my Starrett dial caliper under the glass of a goosneck light with magnifier in the middle.  I trust the Starrett far more than the cheapo digital set I have.  I also have a real nice "Mauser" brand caliper made in France.
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Post by james r chapman 11/13/2017, 7:58 pm

Smile
http://store.gaging.com/Optical_Comparators/p52-664-609-fowler-10x-pocket-optical-comparator-set-with-illuminator
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Post by james r chapman 11/13/2017, 8:00 pm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICRO-VU-BENCH-TOP-OPTICAL-COMPARATOR-MODEL-400-GOOD-CONDITION-10-SCREEN/172971751191?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D17df1e32ab9547dfa31bcbc30e714aa4%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D7%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D231815142485&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726
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Post by Magload 11/13/2017, 8:27 pm

And how many of you have had your measuring instruments calibrated at a professional cal lab, and re calibrated on the proper schedule.  NASA wouldn't be having you make any measurements for them.  Working 12 years in a cal lab has has given me little fate that I am measuring or torquing anything correctly.  Well yes you might have calibration weights and block but those things require calibration also and need to be at least 4 time my accurate then the instrument you are checking.  Me I just load the bullets till they feel and group the way I shoot it doesn't much matter.  Don
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Post by Jack H 11/13/2017, 9:29 pm

My Starrett and Mauser dial calipers both zero perfectly, and also read perfectly on my 1"  Starrett standard.  The cheap digital has a zero button, but then measures the 1" std as .999
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