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Reline Nelson. What?

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Jon Eulette
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Reline Nelson.  What? Empty Reline Nelson. What?

Post by Jack H 3/16/2018, 2:27 am

I saw in a post about a reline on a Nelson.  Sams, I think.  Sounded like a routine consideration.  Is that ever needed?  Really? 

I have a 41 bbl relined by Alex.  But it was needed due to keyholes at 50'.  The reline shoots no better than my good 41 barrels.
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Post by Bullseye_Stan 3/16/2018, 7:02 am

A new barrel from Nelson cost ~$115.00.  Not that economics or common sense have much of a role in some decisions, but I would just buy a new Nelson barrel.

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Post by Chris Miceli 3/16/2018, 9:26 am

I like Larry and the Nelson product, but I haven't seen any stock barrels that produce the same accuracy as a relined or custom barrel.

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Post by SW-52 3/16/2018, 9:36 am

Chris Miceli wrote:I like Larry and the Nelson product, but I haven't seen any stock barrels that produce the same accuracy as a relined or custom barrel.
the marvels need relined barrels for better accuracy?
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Post by Virgil Kane 3/16/2018, 9:44 am

I had a reline done on a 41 and have been thoroughly disappointed in it's performance, sent it back and was told there was nothing wrong with it. Money would have been better spent on a new barrel not a reline.  Wish Bully Barrels was still around with BE barrels where you could look at test groups of different barrels before purchasing one.  Anything less than seeing what a barrel or reline can do is a crap shoot.

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Post by Chris Miceli 3/16/2018, 9:45 am

SW-52 wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:I like Larry and the Nelson product, but I haven't seen any stock barrels that produce the same accuracy as a relined or custom barrel.
the marvels need relined barrels for better accuracy?
I would =] Jerry did

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Post by Chris Miceli 3/16/2018, 9:48 am

Virgil Kane wrote:I had a reline done on a 41 and have been thoroughly disappointed in it's performance, sent it back and was told there was nothing wrong with it. Money would have been better spent on a new barrel not a reline.  Wish Bully Barrels was still around with BE barrels where you could look at test groups of different barrels before purchasing one.  Anything less than seeing what a barrel or reline can do is a crap shoot.

Virgil
I know Sams sends test targets after a reline. Don't forget 22s can have accuracy enhanced by the right lot # of the right ammo.

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Post by james r chapman 3/16/2018, 9:49 am

I think one needs to keep mindful of who might benefit from this.
Masters seeking High Master probably.
The rest of we Minions are hard pressed to outshoot the factory barrels on any of these fixed barrel guns.
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Post by Tim:H11 3/16/2018, 10:39 am

My Nelson shoots 1” off sand bags with wolf target Ammo at 50’yards. Is the few hundred dollars worth it to me for it to shoot a quarter inch (or maybe a little better than that) tighter? No. It’ll hold X ring or better stock so long as you’re shooting the right Ammo. So I’m not going to worry about it. It won’t shoot any better than 2 inches with CCI. So if you want your gun to shoot cheaper Ammo better then yes have it lined. Other wise spend the money on the better and Ammo. I only shoot the good stuff at 50 yards. Helps keep the cost down. At least at a local match. I’m getting ready to travel to a match soon and I’ll be shooting good Ammo for both distances there since I’m already spending money to travel to shoot - might as well shoot the good stuff and make it worth it.
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Post by Chris Miceli 3/16/2018, 10:45 am

If it doesn’t do 1” cci it’s a turd. The cost of a new barrel is cheaper than years of tenex

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Post by mspingeld 3/16/2018, 10:53 am

So what ammo has yielded good results? I like Center-X for my Pardini. Anyone try that with a Nelson? Results?

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Post by Chris Miceli 3/16/2018, 10:57 am

mspingeld wrote:So what ammo has yielded good results? I like Center-X for my Pardini. Anyone try that with a Nelson? Results?
Every barrel is different, but tenex and the like are worthy of trying

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Post by jglenn21 3/16/2018, 11:48 am

sometimes an alternative to re-lining is simply to have the Crown re-cut properly
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Post by Jon Eulette 3/16/2018, 12:07 pm

Unfortunately conversions have been manufactured on CNC lathes and have the muzzles crowned by hand with a reamer. It is puloted off the bore but there can be play which is not a crowns best friend for accuracy. Turning crown on a lathe is best way to get most from the barrels accuracy. Unfortunately the Nelsons are done this way. I spoje with Larry about it and they are working on improving it.
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Post by JayhawkNavy02 3/16/2018, 8:59 pm

I’llBullseye_Stan wrote:A new barrel from Nelson cost ~$115.00.  Not that economics or common sense have much of a role in some decisions, but I would just buy a new Nelson barrel.

Not great advice.  I have 3 Nelson barrels.  One barrel is around 3/4" (10 shots at 50 yards) with Eley TENEX. You are playing the lottery. David Sams will re-line your barrel and I've never seen anything over 1" with any ammunition yet.  Instead of playing the $150 lottery Dave can ensure you have the results you desire.

jglenn21 wrote:sometimes an alternative to re-lining is simply to have the Crown re-cut properly

I did this with one barrel and it reduced the group with Aguila and CCI by 1/2.  It took TENEX from 1.5" to .77" which was very good, for 10 shots at 50 yds, but it gets expensive to feed.

Chris Miceli wrote:
mspingeld wrote:So what ammo has yielded good results? I like Center-X for my Pardini. Anyone try that with a Nelson? Results?
Every barrel is different, but tenex and the like are worthy of trying

Chris is spot on. 

Barrel #7 (loose chamber)
Factory crown and chamber corrected by Gunsmith prior to testing (original groups were 2x this size)
10 shots, 50 yards from H.E.G. rest

Reline Nelson.  What? ED98_D0_C6_CB00_42_A3_94_BE_1_CC895_A6_C3_AE

Reline Nelson.  What? 0772_AD60_BB09_425_A_9_DF5_E3114366_EBBD

Barrel #77 (Tight Chamber)
I plan on re-doing the crown, and then re-testing.  Just like barrel #7, the crown could be better and I believe that is hampering the accuracy.
10 shots, 50 yards, Ransom Rest

Reline Nelson.  What? E4_D36_FE6_DE7_F_4964_9081_BAF5_CFE5_D608

Reline Nelson.  What? AD05_CFA6_096_D_41_DA_BD6_D_0151_C2_CC391_C

Barrel #77 Results

Lapua Midas+               .946"
Lapua Center-X           1.161"
Eley     TENEX             1.287"
Eley     Club                  1.357"
CCI      SV                    1.553"
SK      PIstol Match      1.932"
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Post by Bullseye_Stan 3/17/2018, 8:37 am

After reading this thread, I think I'll work on cleaning up the crown on my conversion.  I want to remove the sight rib for substituting a weaver rail anyway.  I'm fairly certain the plain barrel will allow using a 4 jaw chuck with a 60 deg center drill for the crown.  I need to do that with a safe queen HS Citation I found at a gun show a few months back.

I have a hard time believing there is a guarantee of 1" 50 yard groups with a newly relined barrel using any .22lr ammunition. That sounds too good to be true.  But, I've learned not to argue about such topics.

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Post by Skid 3/17/2018, 8:47 am

Thanks for your post JayhawkNavy02.

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Post by jglenn21 3/17/2018, 9:36 am

4 jaw works perfectly. I use a modified boring bar to cut mine.. usually a 45 degree for 22s.  I do use an 11 degree on rifles and 1911 barrels(it's pretty)
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Post by Dr.Don 3/17/2018, 9:42 am

Don't use a center drill for the crown.  Center in the 4-jaw and use a single point tool with the compound set at an angle to cut the crown.  Angle is somewhat arbitrary, but many use 11 degrees.  The tailstock is seldom dead center with the headstock and a center drill may well may it worse.
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Post by Jon Eulette 3/17/2018, 9:54 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:After reading this thread, I think I'll work on cleaning up the crown on my conversion.  I want to remove the sight rib for substituting a weaver rail anyway.  I'm fairly certain the plain barrel will allow using a 4 jaw chuck with a 60 deg center drill for the crown.  I need to do that with a safe queen HS Citation I found at a gun show a few months back.

I have a hard time believing there is a guarantee of 1" 50 yard groups with a newly relined barrel using any .22lr ammunition. That sounds too good to be true.  But, I've learned not to argue about such topics.

The several relined barrels I've seen or owned all shot in neighborhood of 0.5" with majority of ammo tried. My older Marvel has Shilen barrel and shoots 0.5-0.6". Liners are not a gimmick but do require skill to install. Dave Sams is a master at it.
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Post by JayhawkNavy02 3/17/2018, 10:07 am

Bullseye_Stan wrote:I have a hard time believing there is a guarantee of 1" 50 yard groups with a newly relined barrel using any .22lr ammunition. That sounds too good to be true.  But, I've learned not to argue about such topics.

I do too!  I may be wrong, but I don’t think anyone said Dave would guarantee with any ammo.
It is too good to be true, because it isn’t and that may be my fault for not being clear.  As of yet I have not seen any Remington Thunderbolt bullet bucket test targets anyway.

Of the ammo he uses and the targets I’ve seen all were pretty exceptional, and most well under 1" with premium match ammo.  European (TENEX/Midas+).  What's impressive is how well they shot with budget stuff.


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on 9/20/2022, 1:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Bullseye_Stan 3/17/2018, 10:39 am

I didn't mean the crown - which I would use a lathe tool to cut.  I mean the chamfer (where the rifling lands meet the edge of the grooves).  Brownells sells the 45 deg hand chamfering tools.  I've modified my tailstock for centering with the chuck, it's a G0602 (Chinese) lathe that needed a few tweaks.  But a single bit tool with the compound set at a 23 degree angle is a good approach.  Thanks for pointing that out.

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Post by Dcforman 3/17/2018, 11:54 am

Does anyone know offhand what Sams charges for a reline?

Thanks!

Dave

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Post by SW-52 3/17/2018, 2:33 pm

JayhawkNavy02 wrote:
I’llBullseye_Stan wrote:A new barrel from Nelson cost ~$115.00.  Not that economics or common sense have much of a role in some decisions, but I would just buy a new Nelson barrel.

Not great advice.  I have 3 Nelson barrels.  One barrel is around 3/4" (10 shots at 50 yards) with Eley TENEX. You are playing the lottery. David Sams will re-line your barrel and I've never seen anything over 1" with any ammunition yet.  Instead of playing the $150 lottery Dave can ensure you have the results you desire.

jglenn21 wrote:sometimes an alternative to re-lining is simply to have the Crown re-cut properly

I did this with one barrel and it reduced the group with Aguila and CCI by 1/2.  It took TENEX from 1.5" to .77" which was very good, for 10 shots at 50 yds, but it gets expensive to feed.

Chris Miceli wrote:
mspingeld wrote:So what ammo has yielded good results? I like Center-X for my Pardini. Anyone try that with a Nelson? Results?
Every barrel is different, but tenex and the like are worthy of trying

Chris is spot on. 

Barrel #7 (loose chamber)
Factory crown and chamber corrected by Gunsmith prior to testing (original groups were 2x this size)
10 shots, 50 yards from H.E.G. rest

Reline Nelson.  What? ED98_D0_C6_CB00_42_A3_94_BE_1_CC895_A6_C3_AE

Reline Nelson.  What? 0772_AD60_BB09_425_A_9_DF5_E3114366_EBBD

Barrel #77 (Tight Chamber)
I plan on re-doing the crown, and then re-testing.  Just like barrel #7, the crown could be better and I believe that is hampering the accuracy.
10 shots, 50 yards, Ransom Rest

Reline Nelson.  What? E4_D36_FE6_DE7_F_4964_9081_BAF5_CFE5_D608

Reline Nelson.  What? AD05_CFA6_096_D_41_DA_BD6_D_0151_C2_CC391_C

Barrel #77 Results

Lapua Midas+               .946"
Lapua Center-X           1.161"
Eley     TENEX             1.287"
Eley     Club                  1.357"
CCI      SV                    1.553"
SK      PIstol Match      1.932"
what's reline Price???
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Post by Chris Miceli 3/17/2018, 2:43 pm

300+ I believe

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