scope mounts for a 52Smith

looking for good scope mounts for a 52

I use the EGW. The Vortex Venom is a great red dot, too.  
See pic.
https://i.imgur.com/CBfLfGB.jpg

Check out BME website.
Many potions for this rare pistol.
I'm using a bridge mount that can on a recently purchased pistol.
I like the way the gun feels with an Ultra dot Match dot mounted.
I don't like the fact that the mount attaches on the weight slots
and two set screws that apply tension to the thin dust cover.
I REALLY don't like the fact that the mount must be removed
to remove the slide from the frame.
The selection of the dot sight should determine the mount 
selection in my opinion.
If you like a sight like a Vortex Venom or the like, you have mounts 
that install in the rear sight dovetail.
Simple and proven.
If you like a tube sight as I do. and don't want to spend big $
for an Aim point mini, that can ride on the slide without needing to 
up your powder charge and springs, this decision is not so simple.
I don't consider a cheap knockoff of the Vortex an option that I would consider.
My thoughts, G

I use a Burris Fast Fire 3 reflex sight.  No change in loads and is just as accurate as a tube dot.  A big tube dot like an Ultradot will very likely require respringing nging unless you frame mount.   

If you are interested in a side mounts for the model 52, with the rail on top, I have two pair that you can have for any reasonable offer.  Whatever they're worth to you, that's the price.  If you're interested, I'll send you a photo, or a link to one of the old advertisements.  Frame mounts, so no drilling required, and you can leave your steel sights in place.

After seeing what Mustachio, Wobbley, and LenV did for mounts, I lost interest in these "frame mounts".

mikemyers wrote:If you are interested in a side mounts for the model 52, with the rail on top, I have two pair that you can have for any reasonable offer.  Whatever they're worth to you, that's the price.  If you're interested, I'll send you a photo, or a link to one of the old advertisements.  Frame mounts, so no drilling required, and you can leave your steel sights in place.

After seeing what Mustachio, Wobbley, and LenV did for mounts, I lost interest in these "frame mounts".

Are they frame mounts or slide.mounts?

would love to see a picture and I am interested

I finally settled on an EGW mount and a Vortex Razor reflex, but only after trying other options.  I started with a grip mount, like mikemyers is talking about.  Putting it one wasn't much of an issue, but getting it off and the pins back in was a real boxing match.  The mount set my Matchdot II too high for my taste, but I could have lived with that.  What I decided I wouldn't live with was was having to remove the whole thing to clean the gun - like you have to do with the mount that attaches to the weight grove.

Next, I tried the BME mount - the one that replaces the rear sight.  A very nice fit, and it put the red dot where I thought it belonged.  Right from the start, it was clear the standard recoil spring was too heavy.  I replaced it with a 7# spring, which was as light as Wolff sells.  Not light enough.  Either it did not cycle, or the brass literally fell out and went straight down.  A couple of times, it tried to cycle, but just left the spent brass in the chamber.  About everything that can go wrong with cycling happened.

I was left with 1. pulling the bullets from over 1200 rounds and playing with new loads (I have over 1200 rounds loaded up and no more primers), 2 going back to iron sights, or 3. going with a mount and reflex sight, which are known to work with a stock gun and 148 gr wad cutters over 2.7 gr Bullseye.  

I tried deconstructing 100 rounds and gave up.  The only way I know of to get a flush seated wadcutter out of the brass is with the hammer style puller.  Very slow.  No, too slow.

Going back to irons won't work with my eyes, so no an option.  Iron sights = no longer shooting the pistol.

That left me with trying a 3rd mount and reflex sight.  I haven't had it on the range, but the 3 moa red dot doesn't seem any harder to find than my Matchdot II.  It will take a little getting used to, but I was pretty much used to my Matchdot after 100 rounds or so.

What we go through for our sweet shooting Model 52s.

Edit:  I forgot to mention that the grip mount uses 2 socket head screws.  As is too often the case, the socket to wrench fit is a little sloppy.  For such small headed screws, it was only a matter of time before the heads cammed out.  Not my cuppa tea.

GME wrote:.........Right from the start, it was clear the standard recoil spring was too heavy.  I replaced it with a 7# spring, which was as light as Wolff sells.  Not light enough.  Either it did not cycle, or the brass literally fell out and went straight down.  A couple of times, it tried to cycle, but just left the spent brass in the chamber.  About everything that can go wrong with cycling happened.........

I think the Vortex Venom weighs about as much as the steel sight.  Much easier on the gun than a Matchdot II.

mikemyers wrote:

steve 61 wrote:would love to see a picture and I am interested

The manufacturer is different, and there are some superficial differences, but this is essentially what I had.  I'm not clear about the two silver lined holes.  On mine, they are just threaded holes.  The way mine works, there is a custom milled screw, fashioned like the pin it replaces at the lower corner, and at the trigger for the upper one.  I've heard that some are just held in place with the grip screws.  That would be easier in the long run, although how well it stays in place is an open question.

The Razor is .2 oz heavier than the Venom, but .2 oz lighter than the Burris FastFire 3.  So, if Wobbley's works fine without mods, so should mine.

Are you using a Venom?  If so, how have you found its accuracy, and how does it do in bright sunlight?

LenV had one of those and found that on one of his guns the mound shifted somehow and marred the finish underneath it.

Deleted Post

I think LenV had one like what's shown in my photo.  He explainew to mount it.  
Yes, if it moves it can damage the finish on the gun.

Wobbley wrote:LenV had one of those and found that on one of his guns the mound shifted somehow and marred the finish underneath it.

If anyone is interested, I can scan the mounting instructions and post it here.

One of them came with my first Model 52.  Then I bought the second one (at a good price) mostly to get the directions (which Len had already explained to me).  I never mounted either of them.  



As to the Vortex Venom, I bought one from a forum member, and liked it so much I then bought another one from him.  As long as you leave it on the gun, it holds zero beautifully, but you need to re-adjust after removing the mount, which I had to do to remove the magazine disconnect parts located under the sight.

As to which sights I like, and so on, I'm guilty of selecting people here who I respect very much, such as LenV, and blindly copying what they do.  I figure if it works for them, it's likely to work for me.  It sort of works in reverse, too.  After reading Jon's experiences with a Matchdot II, the two that I own are sitting in a box.  The three types of sights I feel most comfortable with (all based on other people's experiences) are the Aimpoint Micro (especially the H-2), the one inch Ultradot Dave Salyer convinced me to mount on my 45, and the Vortex Venom.


BTW:  Back to this thread, I used to think that the red dot sight was the answer to everything, and was SO happy when I got things set up with the Venom on a BME mount, but lately when I shoot both of my Model 52's, I'm not convinced the red dot is "better" than the original steel sights.  As I recall, the Bullseye record for highest score was done with steel.  Other than for people with vision issues, I wonder if red dot sights make anything "better".  Just my opinion - shoot me if you wish to.  I don't have enough experience to give a proper answer, but I can certainly say that they are both equally good "for me".

Interesting comments Mikemyers.  I think the red dot devises work better for fast action shooting giving you better ability to get on target quickly, but in precision shooting things slow down and you begin to pay more attention to the DOT instead of the target.  I have found that it is sometimes easier for me to use iron sights than a red dot which may sound odd, but I don't notice as much wobble with iron sights.  Of course the plus side to DOT sights is that you don't have to concern yourself with 3 items, front sight, rear sight and target and instead you only have the DOT and the target.  Anyway for me my wobble on target using a DOT sight just seems to be amplified sometimes compared to irons, so I go back to irons for a brief time and calm down.  That's the joy of having two M52's one with iron sights and one with a DOT. 
Rick H.

I removed the BME bridge sight to clean my 52.
It took about 15-20 rounds to get back to zero and that is 
in my opinion not something I will be doing on a regular basis.
I currently run Match dots on my Pardini rim fire and 1911
wad gun and have never had an issue so i figured I would stick
with what works.
The round tube in these Match dots I feel act as a natural
centering device.
The shape of the Venom as well as the lack of click adjustment
is why I decided to try the Match dot and the mount that came with the pistol.
The need to remove the mount from the pistol outweighs these issues
and i will be purchasing a mount EGW or BME that replaces the rear sight
and will mount a venom have and expect, based on the comments 
will be pleased with the results.

G

Rick, two quick thoughts.  First, it certainly is interesting having two supposedly identical guns, as it's possible to try something and go back and forth between them, to prove to yourself what change, if any, it made.

This leads to my second thought.  When I first tried a red dot sight, I thought they were terrible, as they made my hand shake a lot more - my wobble with the dot sight seemed to be much worse than my wobble with the steel sight.  After thinking about that for a while, I decided it was most likely impossible.  It didn't make sense.

Which led to my finally deciding the the dot sight really made "my wobble" obvious, and that for unknown reasons, it was much less obvious with the steel sights.  Or, in your word, the dot sight was somehow amplifying my wobble.  Since my grouping didn't change much once I learned how to use both sights properly, to me that means the REAL wobble, what my gun was doing, hadn't changed.

If I had to put this into words today, I'd say that the dot sight is like a magnifying lens - it shows things that aren't apparent without it.  Maybe other people here can explain this better than I can.

There are other things going on that I don't know how to explain.  Depending on which red dot sight one uses, the weight of the sight and mount may be more than the weight of the steel sights, which I think might have an effect on what the slide is doing.

On the other hand, the mounts that I bought for my Model 52 have NO effect on the slide.  They only add to the mass of the frame of the gun.  If I ignore convenience, that frame mount would have all the advantages of a dot sight, with none of the disadvantages.  Even with my 1911 guns, I suspect I would be better off mounting the red dot sight to the frame, not to my slide.

And one last thing - with my prescription glasses, I now have 20:20 vision, meaning to me that I should be able to shoot with iron sights quite well.  That's not needed for a red dot sight - just put the dot where it belongs, sharp or fuzzy, and pull the trigger smoothly.  That's a huge advantage for red dot sights.  Perfect vision is a requirement for steel sights, but not so much so for red dot sights.

......all just thinking out loud here.  I'm sure there is much more to consider, but I don't know enough about those things - yet.

Gary Collette wrote:........The round tube in these Match dots I feel act as a natural centering device.......

I used to feel that way, but over time, the "round tube" is something I no longer pay attention to.  I thought it helped, but now I don't think it makes any difference.  All I notice is the target, and the dot.

On the other hand, the size of the tube still makes a big difference to me.  The more I can see, the better I can move the dot into the sight, if it ever moves outside of the tube.  An Aimpoint 9000sc is wonderful for this, but too heavy for me.

I think your reply is quite accurate Mike.  Several years ago when red dots really started taking off a lot of old time shooters, myself included, looked at them at somewhat compared them to laser sighting systems.  After using the red dots for awhile I came to realize in some sense I was doing the same thing wrong with both a red dot and a laser.  I was "chasing the dot" which is really easy to do, especially with a laser.  I had to force myself to look/concentrate on the target and let the red dot invade my vision in front of the target, but not concentrate on it.  When I did that I was much more tuned into shooting better.  If I forgot to do that, I once again started chasing the dot and my results suffered.  It's just my opinion of course and others may see it otherwise.

Rick H.

Glad it works for you too!

I'd like to say how well it's working for me, but I haven't been at the range in almost three weeks.  Florida has too much virus going around, and I feel uncomfortable walking out my door.

I had two mounts for my Model 52, and the OP, Steve, bought one.  I put them both in the package, so if anyone else wants one, send a note to Steve.