Case lube for wet tumbling

I converted to wet tumbling a while back, and have been having an issue with brass sticking and galling in the crimp die. The buildup scratches the case mouths, and gets progressively worse as the loading session goes on. I've taken to using spray lube before they go in the case feeder, but have heard of people using car wax or other products in the tumbler to "lube" cases. Anybody have any experience or product recommendations? Just trying to eliminate the messy lube step...

I have the same issue but only with new brass and when loading jacketed. Fired brass and lead loads are much easier.

I lay out the brass in a tray and use Hornady case lube spray and leave it to dry a bit. I also find the cases sticking on the expander. Clean & lube your expander and clean your crimp die like you're cleaning a gun barrel.

Interested to hear what others suggest.

After tumbling with soap and pins, I rinse a little and add some car wash wax and tumble for a minute.  Then drain and dry.

I spray case lube into a plastic bag.  Add a coupe hundred 9 mm and shake.  This makes sure the lube is only on the outside.     Spraying them in a container gets case lube inside.  Powder sticks to it....

9mm is the only one I use extra lube on.  Car wash wax works fine for 45, 38, 44....
David

David R wrote:After tumbling with soap and pins, I rinse a little and add some car wash wax and tumble for a minute.  Then drain and dry.

I spray case lube into a plastic bag.  Add a coupe hundred 9 mm and shake.  This makes sure the lube is only on the outside.     Spraying them in a container gets case lube inside.  Powder sticks to it....

9mm is the only one I use extra lube on.  Car wash wax works fine for 45, 38, 44....
David

Do you have a favorite brand?  Also are you using the combined wash and wax?  Or just a liquid wax?   I have been cleaning with dawn, a quarter teaspoon of Lemishine , and a cap full of the car wash with wax.  No sticking.

I use Armor All Wash & Wax and it leaves the cases a little bit slick and tarnish resistant. 

I also spray down cases with Hornady One Shot prior to running them through the progressive press. Doesn't need to be removed.

Everything glides.

I do not use stainless pins while wet processing brass.  I question the validity of the need for highest possible "hygiene" for fired brass, including de-priming prior to the cleaning, so primer pocket can be cleaned.  Especially when it comes to pistol calibers.  I've done quite extensive testing of accuracy of the ammo loaded in brand new Starline cases versus once fired versus fired multiple times.  I could not come up to discernible difference that can be attributed to one versus another. 

I use ultrasonic cleaning with Millard Citric Acid with addition of Costco's brand UltraShine Dish Soap.  Brass comes out nicely shining and clean.  No issues with sticking in presses.

AP

Schaumannk wrote:

David R wrote:After tumbling with soap and pins, I rinse a little and add some car wash wax and tumble for a minute.  Then drain and dry.

I spray case lube into a plastic bag.  Add a coupe hundred 9 mm and shake.  This makes sure the lube is only on the outside.     Spraying them in a container gets case lube inside.  Powder sticks to it....

9mm is the only one I use extra lube on.  Car wash wax works fine for 45, 38, 44....
David

Do you have a favorite brand?  Also are you using the combined wash and wax?  Or just a liquid wax?   I have been cleaning with dawn, a quarter teaspoon of Lemishine , and a cap full of the car wash with wax.  No sticking.

Wife owns a car wash.    I have used Armor all and ZIP wash and wax, it works the same.  I like to rinse then wax so I don't wax the dirt on the cases.

David

Wife owns a car wash.    I have used Armor all and ZIP wash and wax, it works the same.  I like to rinse then wax so I don't wax the dirt on the cases. wrote:
David

So you process, drain, rinse, load back into the tumbler, add the wash/wax and process longer?  How much longer??? And how much wax do you use?

I clean with soap and lemeshine, hold my hand over the top, dump out the BLACK  WATER   Add fresh water, slosh, dump again.  Add water, and one table spoon of wax.  Tumble one minute and dump into separator.

I had problems pulling the expander out of the case before I used the wax.  It was sticking.

Brass looks like it came out of the box new inside and out.
David.

David R wrote:I clean with soap and lemeshine, hold my hand over the top, dump out the BLACK  WATER   Add fresh water, slosh, dump again.  Add water, and one table spoon of wax.  Tumble one minute and dump into separator.

I had problems pulling the expander out of the case before I used the wax.  It was sticking.

Brass looks like it came out of the box new inside and out.
David.

So you don't use stainless steel pins when you wet tumble?

Val

I don't use pins either... they're a pain in the posterior...

I use the pins but very few of them.   They add a lot of weight.   I don’t have any  trouble dealing with them.   I dump the entire load into a Dillon media separator and spin it to separate the cases from the pins and dirty water.   I then use the magnet to pick up the pins and put them back in the tumbler.   Dump the dirty water, and the spin the separator again while spraying with hot water to get any residue.   
    I lay my brass out on a towel to dry.

I use the pins.  I have a  Frankford arsenal separator,   I just dump them back in the tumbler.  I never need to pick them up with a magnet.  Tumbler to the separator, back in the tumbler.   

David

pgg wrote:I use Armor All Wash & Wax and it leaves the cases a little bit slick and tarnish resistant. 

I also spray down cases with Hornady One Shot prior to running them through the progressive press. Doesn't need to be removed.

Everything glides.

I use Ultrasonic cleaning and then hand rinse them in a bucket with the Armor all wash and wax before drying.   No galling for me with Redding micrometer crimp die.

Fastest, cheapest most efficient method is to buy liquid lanolin, 99% isopropyl and a plastic spray bottle. Spread clean dry brass on a towel, spritz a couple times, tossed once or twice and then put it back in your brass bin. Will make your progressive press run much more smoothly, and does not make the brass sticky and collect dirt.

SmokinNJokin wrote:Fastest, cheapest most efficient method is to buy liquid lanolin, 99% isopropyl and a plastic spray bottle. Spread clean dry brass on a towel, spritz a couple times, tossed once or twice and then put it back in your brass bin. Will make your progressive press run much more smoothly, and does not make the brass sticky and collect dirt.

 Andrew, do you have a mix you use or just experiment with the alcohol ?
Stan

I think I was using an ounce of lanolin to a bottle (14oz?) of alcohol? I don't recall, its not real critical as the alcohol just evaporates. What is important is that you use 99% isopropyl, not the more commonly found 70% or 91%. They leave water behind.
A great benefit I found on my progressive press of using this mixture on clean brass was a more consistent powder throw and lower SD due to smoother operation of the press, specifically in primer seating and withdrawing the brass from the expander die. I agree with PhotoEscape that it is not necessary for accuracy, I do it because I don't like getting my press dirty, don't like the particulates, dust and grime from reloading dirty brass, and because sparkly brass is visually pleasing.

I pride myself on professional and consistent ammunition reloading, but I also prefer to spend as little time and money doing it. 

I deprime my .45 (for bullseye only, not practice ammo) brass on a single stage press set up with a brass kicker and spent primer tube, I'm using the same batch of starline that has got to be on 20+ reloadings and it still looks pretty new. Using a .45 colt sizer helps a lot, the brass is not getting expanded/contracted as much and it really seems to extend the life and slow brass shrinkage. I try to get my whole batch roll-sized every few years. Pulls the brass back out to spec.

I use powdered citric acid and dish soap with steel pin tumble on the brass, dry it in the oven on warm setting (turn oven off when I put the brass in, usually good and dry in 15 mins)
Spray my case lube on a towel, toss a couple times and then it goes into my brass bin (Costco pub mix plastic container) with a pack of desiccant until needed.
 
I quit using any specific reloading gun-branded consumables or gun oils years ago, they are a rip-off. 
I use motor oil, or the MTU red mixture, on all my metal guns, I use red bearing grease on my barrel bushings, the only expensive product I use is tw-25 and that is just a drop on hammer hooks so it lasts me forever. I do use breakfree LP (NOT CLP) on my metal guns for storage, but that also lasts a long time. I clean them with WD-40.

 Your results may vary, and I'm not looking to start any arguments, but in my opinion automotive products have been developed with extensive R&D costing millions if not billions of dollars, are designed to stand up to more duty cycles in a minute than most guns see in a lifetime, and are about 100x cheaper than anything gun-branded.

What brand and age of 45 colt die are you using? I found many of the newer ones, especially after the sammi spec was updated to use 0.451 bullets, are tge same as ACP dies. The 454 Casull die by Hornady is bigger inside.

Speaking of commercial products, l just found Mobil synthetic motor oil, slick as snot. My new go to. Used to use Slick50 and any non detergent oil.

funny that you mention that, since wally world started carryin full synth mobil $25 for 5 quarts i use nothin else, cars guns mower you name it. My sizer die is a lee carbide maybe 10 years old.

In my experience, using automotive products (Mobil 1 red synthetic grease, Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1 synthetic ATF) required more frequent cleanings, upping powder charges by 0.04-0.06gr and persistent additional oiling each time prior to starting to shoot.  It is natural due to higher viscosity of above mentioned products.  I agree that protection using automotive products is superior to using conventional gun oils.  However not all of them.  I switched to using Extreme Duty gun oil by Lucas Oil (still automotive at the base) with intermediate oiling with Battle Born HP Pro.  Works quite well for me.

That is IMO.  But we deviated from OP......

AP

I have the exact same problem. Went to wet tumbling with pins and sticking in a redding crimp die. I'm using Turtle Wax soap/wax and Lemishine. Tried Hornady One Shot but still get some sticking. Will try the Armorall before going back to walnut and dust

In prep for cleaning, I de-prime my brass. I do experience sticking after wet tumbling. I use Dawn, Lemishine and pins, then I rinse in Armor-all wash/wax. At close inspection coming out of the tumbler, I noticed really rough edges on the case mouth, so, for a while, I would throw the clean brass into my vibratory tumbler with media, and some Nu Finish Car Polish, but the media would get caught in the primer pockets so I stopped.

I think I will tumble my next batch without pins, then inspect the brass for rough edges, and to check out the cleanliness of the primer pocket.

Saw this thread and thought I would give you detailed directions on making the best case sizing lube there is.   You need to buy 3 things.   First, you want to get pure liquid lanolin.    It can be bought online on Amazon.com and looks like this: (http://www.vitaglo.com/7730.html).   There are other suppliers as well, but try to get it in a 4 oz. bottle, as you will understand why later.
Liquid lanolin, which is a refined lanolin oil, is also sometimes available from health food stores and sources specializing in ingredients for cosmetics.
Next, you need to buy a 12 oz. bottle of 99 percent isopropyl alcohol.   While many stores carry isopropyl alcohol in their drug/cosmetic isle, I have found few that carry the 99 percent variety that you need.   Fortunately, there is an easily found product that contains 99 percent isopropyl alcohol:  Iso-HEET Injector Cleaner & Fuel Line Antifreeze.   Make sure it is the red bottle HEET and not the yellow bottle HEET, as that contains methanol and not isopropyl alcohol.
Lastly, you need a spray bottle.   I bought mine at a Dollar General store for about 2 bucks.   Now for the mixing.   You need to warm both the lanolin and the HEET to enable them to mix together.   But, you cannot do this over an open flame.   Again, do not heat either the lanolin or the HEET over an open flame.   Rather, bring a pot of water on the stove to a boil and then turn off the heat.   Then, insert the bottle of lanolin and the bottle of HEET into the boiling water until both are quite hot.   After removing them from the water, with a pen or magic marker, mark the lanolin bottle in increments of 1 oz.   In other words, if the height to the top of the lanolin in the bottle is 4 inches, from the bottom place a mark 1 inch up, 2 inches up, and 3 inches up.   Actually, it is probably better to do this prior to heating the lanolin.   So now, with both the lanolin and the HEET hot, pour 1 oz. of the lanolin and the entire 12 oz. bottle of HEET into your spray bottle.   Shake it up and look for an even mixing taking place.   If you see separation of the two, place the spray bottle into the hot water to heat up the mixture and shake again.
To apply the lube, it’s best to place your brass into something like a 1 gallon ziplock bag, give a couple of squirts, close the bag and then shake the bag so the lube gets distributed onto all your brass.   You can also spray the inside of the bag a couple times and then put the brass in prior to shaking them.   After resizing the brass, you will need to remove the lube.   The best way to do this is to place them in your dry tumbler, add about a tablespoon of mineral spirits/paint thinner, and then tumble them for about 20 minutes.   Hope this has been helpful to you, and if you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Don