TiteGroup / 158g SWC

I have 5 lbs of TiteGroup and MANY Speer 158 grain SWCs (great closeout deal). -- would appreciate target load suggestions using these two with both 38 special and .357m brass.
Thanks in advance,  Russ

Right around 3.2gr in 38spl should be in the ballpark

For the short line 2.9g TG with 158g SWC. Same POA as factory at the long line.

My revolver hated that combo. Tried everything 3.1-3.4gr, but the best group was 8+ inches.

Not saying it can't work for you, but I'd test before loading a bunch. I still have a few hundred to shoot up in practice.

I never had a lot of luck with SWC bullets. Word I always got was they were accurate to 49 yards. I use 3.4 grains of titegroup with a round nose lead bullet with good results.

I run 3.2 with the zero 158swc, however if my recollection is correct the speer bullet is profiled different.

Soupy44 wrote:My revolver hated that combo. Tried everything 3.1-3.4gr, but the best group was 8+ inches.

Not saying it can't work for you, but I'd test before loading a bunch. I still have a few hundred to shoot up in practice.

So, you think it isn't the powder or powder charge, but the bullet? Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

Until you have accurate bullets, trying to select powders is a futile exercise.  

Bullets should be tested in a single shot pistol… I have a Thompson Contender with 38Spl and 45ACP barrels for that.  But, if I had to do it over again, I might get a “Barrel Tester” and use a known barrel chambered by a ‘smith.  If the bullets can be made to shoot in a gizmo like that then you have a known accuracy level for your bullets.  There are lots of pistol bullets out there that aren’t very good even though the makers are conscientious in their production.

Wobbley wrote:Until you have accurate bullets, trying to select powders is a futile exercise.  

Bullets should be tested in a single shot pistol… I have a Thompson Contender with 38Spl and 45ACP barrels for that.  But, if I had to do it over again, I might get a “Barrel Tester” and use a known barrel chambered by a ‘smith.  If the bullets can be made to shoot in a gizmo like that then you have a known accuracy level for your bullets.  There are lots of pistol bullets out there that aren’t very good even though the makers are conscientious in their production.

Actually - I'd go a step further than that and say that whilst a bullet may be great in one barrel that does not guarantee the performance on another, nominally identical, barrel. When you're operating at the outer edges of the performance envelope, i.e. any full wadcutter at 50 yards, tiny changes can push things over the edge. My 38sp 1911 is fabulous out to 42 yards (yes - I measured it) after that it's a crap shoot. Now - I don't really care and just use it for indoor matches. If I needed it to operate at 50 yards I could probably do it but the attention to detail and, essentially, custom fabrication of components makes it not worthwhile.

Not that this diatribe really applies to 38sp 158g in a revolver. While I prefer factory for long line I made distinguished with a GP100 and SWC bullets.

Sorry for stepping out of the OP topic, - several gun builders test barrels with particular ammunition, and then provide recommendations as to what they suggest to use in particular build.  I've seen such done by Bob Marvel, Michael Curtis, Jon Eulette, Jon Shue, David Sams.  I'm sure there are more on this list.

AP

BE Mike wrote:

Soupy44 wrote:My revolver hated that combo. Tried everything 3.1-3.4gr, but the best group was 8+ inches.

Not saying it can't work for you, but I'd test before loading a bunch. I still have a few hundred to shoot up in practice.

So, you think it isn't the powder or powder charge, but the bullet? Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

A group of us discovered that some S&W revolvers used in DR matches preferred RN over SWC. It's worth a try and then select/compare powder and charges. 
my .02

This may be not useful information but I'll share for anyone who cares to read just the same. I may have loaded and shot more .38 Special than any other caliber in my 3+ decades and I made a firm declaration nearly a decade ago that never, ever again will I make any .38 Special ammo using Titegroup powder.

Titegroup is a high nitro powder and because of this, .38 brass and revolver cylinders fired with Titegroup get, in my experience, stupidly hot.

I learned to eject brass from revolvers with my left hand wrapped around the cylinder. By the third string of shooting with Titegroup powered handloads, I'm literally getting burnt.

Titegroup is a versatile, high energy powder and there are places I will use it, but it is prohibited in .38 Special at my bench.