Camp Pendleton - access for matches

There have been some comments recently about how easy or not it is to get into the base for matches.

The "welcome center" process is quite strict - it is an active base - it is huge - and I was told that they have had problems in the past with groups of illegal immigrants wandering about - not smart when they often test live heavy munitions!

When I went to shoot the PacFleet match last year I was not permitted to enter alone and I could not get any kind of pass. Fortunately I knew one of the retired Navy guys involved with the match (thank you Craig) and he "escorted" me into the base very early the next morning. He had to go far out of his way to do that, much appreciated.

Why was I not "welcome"? I am a foreign national categorized as a "legal non-resident Alien" (you can tell by the ears  ) and, even though I have had a US Driver's License and ITIN (equivalent of a SS number) for many years, they are "Not for REALID Act". 

I have never had any problem getting access to other bases (notably even the recently revised stricter vetting for Camp Atterbury), but Pendleton have their rules, not doubt they are there for good reason and it is not for me to criticise.

The other requirement (specific to the PacFleet and similar matches I guess) is that all shooters must attend the Safety Briefing early in the morning on the day of participation - no briefing, no shooting. And all guns must be checked by the Navy armorer in attendance to ensure that all safety devices are working.

I am grateful to PacFleet for permitting me to participate and to get my long awaited Hard Leg - yay! It was a frustrating drama of a trip, but successful in the end  . 

If you want to play at Camp Pendleton, know their rules ahead of time and abide by them!

There are and have been multiple gun clubs and Morale Welfare and Recreation ranges operating on Camp Pendleton, in one form or another, for decades. Over 40 years for the Santa Margarita Gun Club. They used to have highly competitive HP rifle matches there year round. Many national champions have been stationed there. 
There is a well regarded Trap Club there, it's mostly civilian members. There used to be a waiting list to join for civilians so there is no special hoops to jump through because they are well versed to allow civilians, with weapons, on post. Yes there are rules on a Marine Corps base, imagine that.

 Roy you are special and not the way your mom called you special. 


https://pendleton.usmc-mccs.org/recreation-fitness/recreation/outdoor-recreation/recreational-shooting
https://www.smgunclub.org/about/range-locations/
https://practiscore.com/clubs/santa_margarita_gun_club
https://www.basedirectory.com/camp-pendleton-directory/recreational-shooting-skeet-trap-range

Are there any matches like this, but on the East Coast? I think it would be cool to go to one at least once, just to say I've done it.

SMGC only has action pistol currently.  To get on base as a sponsored individual, you need to submit your DL, Proof of insurance and Vehicle registration to SMGC by the Wednesday prior to the event.  Your match program alone isn’t enough to get on base.  Not anymore.  Which is all OK by me anyway.   

My decision rationale for not attending Pendleton as a civilian was I would only be allowed to shoot the EIC once. (CMP rules)  They prefer the western All Navy event IIRC, but I think you can shoot the PACFLT event.  Regardless CMP will evaluate your score and while the USN doesn’t follow the CMP rules for minimum score, the CMP does and  they have the final say on whether to award points.  If I shot a 248 and was above the match cutoff for USN personnel  I would take away a potential leg from a USN member.    So is all that hassle of driving up there, getting on base, then being the one to “take a leg” only to lose it on a technicality really worth it???  What would that result say about me?

Chase, there’s the Atlantic fleet and AllNavy East matches held in Norfolk.  About the same time.

Getting on DoD bases now requires vetting/sponsorship. I tried to find the form that Navy Matches provided to shooters, but couldn’t locate it. 
I believe the form is to be filled out and sent in by a cutoff date so that the Military Police can run cursory background check. USNMT is the sponsor. I imagine shooter shows up to main gate and goes to the visitors center where they will be issued a visitors slip for their vehicle which also gives permission to enter the base.
The base I work on will not allow entry without being placed initially onto a visitor’s list, then being escorted to the Pass & ID building for visitors badging. I forgot to mention that visitors are pre-vetted before being able to be escorted. 
So there’s a process to get on any base, just need to get paperwork taken care of in a timely fashion. No criminal record makes it easier lmao
Jon

Wobbley wrote:SMGC only has action pistol currently.  To get on base as a sponsored individual, you need to submit your DL, Proof of insurance and Vehicle registration to SMGC by the Wednesday prior to the event.  Your match program alone isn’t enough to get on base.  Not anymore.  Which is all OK by me anyway.   

My decision rationale for not attending Pendleton as a civilian was I would only be allowed to shoot the EIC once. (CMP rules)  They prefer the western All Navy event IIRC, but I think you can shoot the PACFLT event.  Regardless CMP will evaluate your score and while the USN doesn’t follow the CMP rules for minimum score, the CMP does and  they have the final say on whether to award points.  If I shot a 248 and was above the match cutoff for USN personnel  I would take away a potential leg from a USN member.    So is all that hassle of driving up there, getting on base, then being the one to “take a leg” only to lose it on a technicality really worth it???  What would that result say about me?

Don’t feel bad at all about taking a Navy leg. Those matches rely on civilian competitors attending and sharing their knowledge with the sailors.

Besides, if you shoot a not-so-good score under the cutoff and that deprives an active duty Navy guy of a leg for shooting an even crappier score, then….good!

(Let’s face it—he probably still won a SecNav Garand anyway for that crappy score).

Wobbley wrote:SMGC only has action pistol currently.  To get on base as a sponsored individual, you need to submit your DL, Proof of insurance and Vehicle registration to SMGC by the Wednesday prior to the event.  Your match program alone isn’t enough to get on base.  Not anymore.  Which is all OK by me anyway.   

My decision rationale for not attending Pendleton as a civilian was I would only be allowed to shoot the EIC once. (CMP rules)  They prefer the western All Navy event IIRC, but I think you can shoot the PACFLT event.  Regardless CMP will evaluate your score and while the USN doesn’t follow the CMP rules for minimum score, the CMP does and  they have the final say on whether to award points.  If I shot a 248 and was above the match cutoff for USN personnel  I would take away a potential leg from a USN member.    So is all that hassle of driving up there, getting on base, then being the one to “take a leg” only to lose it on a technicality really worth it???  What would that result say about me?

You are completely wrong. 

The EIC matches are separate weekends so saying you can't shoot on the second weekend stops you from going the first weekend is just irrational.


Your score has nothing to do with any active duty/reserve person getting a medal or not.  They are shooting under different rules for different medals. 

As a civilian you have to be in the top 10% and above the cut just like every other civilian match. People go to the match because there are very few if any matches west of the Canton regional or Perry that have over 50 people. There are very few matches that even issue a silver let alone 5 or 6 medals any more. Why is that? Because people don't shoot matches. They just want to type about them. 
They always issue a gold EIC medal if you can put up the score. Many of the shooters there are new so yeah the gold can go much cheaper than Canton or Perry or New Jersey.

A few years ago a buddy of mine shot Pendleton/Navy matches. He hadn’t been shooting for a few years. He messaged me that he won the leg match with a 249. I told him he missed the minimum score cut by a point. He didn’t know that rules had changed and required cut score. So his Gold was a Zero! Sometimes cheap is too cheap lol.
Jon

Brian Mason wrote:

Wobbley wrote:SMGC only has action pistol currently.  To get on base as a sponsored individual, you need to submit your DL, Proof of insurance and Vehicle registration to SMGC by the Wednesday prior to the event.  Your match program alone isn’t enough to get on base.  Not anymore.  Which is all OK by me anyway.   

My decision rationale for not attending Pendleton as a civilian was I would only be allowed to shoot the EIC once. (CMP rules)  They prefer the western All Navy event IIRC, but I think you can shoot the PACFLT event.  Regardless CMP will evaluate your score and while the USN doesn’t follow the CMP rules for minimum score, the CMP does and  they have the final say on whether to award points.  If I shot a 248 and was above the match cutoff for USN personnel  I would take away a potential leg from a USN member.    So is all that hassle of driving up there, getting on base, then being the one to “take a leg” only to lose it on a technicality really worth it???  What would that result say about me?

Don’t feel bad at all about taking a Navy leg. Those matches rely on civilian competitors attending and sharing their knowledge with the sailors.

Besides, if you shoot a not-so-good score under the cutoff and that deprives an active duty Navy guy of a leg for shooting an even crappier score, then….good!

(Let’s face it—he probably still won a SecNav Garand anyway for that crappy score).

I agree I thought they should have installed the minimum score. They at least still shoot bullseye though and let other service/civilians attend. That happens in no other service matches. 
I work on an Air Force range and they advertised their annual competition. Closed to anyone but AF and mostly only security forces people. Some kind of 5, 10, 15, 25 yard qual course type "match."

Jon Eulette wrote:A few years ago a buddy of mine shot Pendleton/Navy matches. He hadn’t been shooting for a few years. He messaged me that he won the leg match with a 249. I told him he missed the minimum score cut by a point. He didn’t know that rules had changed and required cut score. So his Gold was a Zero! Sometimes cheap is too cheap lol.
Jon

I bet he would have accepted that gold with a 249 and not twice about it.

Plenty of 10 point civilian medals were issued for 225's and what not before the minimum cut score was added and the six person matches started.

Yeah I believe it, I remember some Dist Navy shooters back in the day that only qualified Marksman because it was 85 and below……
Jon

From this years PACFLT program.

That's a CMP rule not a Navy rule and it's been in place for decades. I guess you are just whining that you have to make a cut score but they don't. The Marines don't either. Bash on them while we're here. 

The EIC matches used to be separate weekends, i guess now things are condensed, because fewer people attend,  but they are still separate days and therefore it makes no sense to not shoot one because you can't shoot both. Just an excuse.

Go to Canton for a hard leg I really don't care.

Just to confirm what several have said above. When I shot PacFleet last year there were several civilians, but I guess they were all already Distinguished. I was the only non-distinguished shooter to break the 250 CMP benchmark and I duly got my 10 point leg (I had about 42 points at the time). It is one of the very few (if not the only) match on the west coast where there are sufficient shooters to drive hard legs.

We were just short of 26 non-Distinguished shooters this year at one of the Carmel Gun Club matches, so we only had an 8 pointer and 6 pointer to give out, but it didn’t matter because only one shooter cracked 250.

Brian Mason wrote: that deprives an active duty Navy guy of a leg for shooting an even crappier score, then….good!

(Let’s face it—he probably still won a SecNav Garand anyway for that crappy score).

That always killed me beating a guy by over a hundred points and he wins a Garand/rifle/etc. Crime pays lol.
Jon

Brian Mason wrote:We were just short of 26 non-Distinguished shooters this year at one of the Carmel Gun Club matches, so we only had an 8 pointer and 6 pointer to give out, but it didn’t matter because only one shooter cracked 250.

I can confirm that Carmel Gun Club in Gonzales, CA, is a great place to get leg points, and a hard leg. Come on out and join us; it's one of the most beautiful ranges I've ever shot on, and I've shot all over the world.

(I'm definitely over the fact that Brian beat me for a hard leg in CMP Revolver in the last match. I've completely forgotten about it. It's never even crossed my mind once. I absolutely have never thought about that match since May 27th, 2023.)

RoyDean wrote:There have been some comments recently about how easy or not it is to get into the base for matches.

The "welcome center" process is quite strict - it is an active base - it is huge - and I was told that they have had problems in the past with groups of illegal immigrants wandering about - not smart when they often test live heavy munitions!

When I went to shoot the PacFleet match last year I was not permitted to enter alone and I could not get any kind of pass. Fortunately I knew one of the retired Navy guys involved with the match (thank you Craig) and he "escorted" me into the base very early the next morning. He had to go far out of his way to do that, much appreciated.

Why was I not "welcome"? I am a foreign national categorized as a "legal non-resident Alien" (you can tell by the ears  ) and, even though I have had a US Driver's License and ITIN (equivalent of a SS number) for many years, they are "Not for REALID Act". 

I have never had any problem getting access to other bases (notably even the recently revised stricter vetting for Camp Atterbury), but Pendleton have their rules, not doubt they are there for good reason and it is not for me to criticise.

The other requirement (specific to the PacFleet and similar matches I guess) is that all shooters must attend the Safety Briefing early in the morning on the day of participation - no briefing, no shooting. And all guns must be checked by the Navy armorer in attendance to ensure that all safety devices are working.

I am grateful to PacFleet for permitting me to participate and to get my long awaited Hard Leg - yay! It was a frustrating drama of a trip, but successful in the end  . 

If you want to play at Camp Pendleton, know their rules ahead of time and abide by them!

As a nonimmigrant alien, I'm surprised that you were able to purchase match pistols. Many FFL's will not sell firearms to nonimmigrant aliens. Of course that is not the case for Lawfully Admitted Permanent Resident Aliens (those with a "green card"). https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/2011/10/31/nonimmigrant-firearms-opinion_0.pdf

As I understand it, the only additional requirement for a Non-immigrant Alien is a determination by their home state government that their background meets the home country’s and US requirements for firearms ownership.

I shot at the California State Match held at Camp Pendleton in 2006 and the PacFleet match in 2010. There were no restrictions entering the base then.

I'm going off the main topic and like to share some personal experiences. The base was huge, and as I recalled, I estimated it was about the width of San Francisco from the front gate to the shooting range. For the PacFleet match, we were informed to muster at a very early time. My memory may be a bit faulty but I think it was 0630. Being a prompt person who respects directions, I arrived on time and was the only person there so I thought "Holy _ _ _ _", did I screw up on the date! I waited and waited only to see a few vehicles trickle in. Eventually, more people and then the staff running the match arrived. The opening introductory speech started well past an hour later. This was followed by instructions on how to shoot. What, when do we shoot?

After a lot of waiting for procedural things, we were able to approach the bench for a couple of magazines of sighters/practice rounds at around 1100. Then more waiting. I didn't prepare with the right clothing for the hot weather because the forecast was for overcast and possibly rain. I was burning as there was no shade in the open range. We shot a little more in the afternoon. I think I shot a total of 50 rounds the entire day. The first day concluded around 1600 and we were told to muster again at 0630 the next day. Oh sure!

I had some good training back at our home range, Sunnyvale Rod and Gun Club, and was going to dedicate my "fine" performance to Bob Brown who suffered from a sudden cancer diagnosis. There was more rush-to-wait on the second day and the sun and heat was not fun. Our cars were not nearby for a quick cool drink or a snack. What made the match enjoyable was meeting other shooters around me. A military shooter nearby said his trigger pull was 13 lbs. and he lightened it to around 8 pounds. I thought how can I take this match that seriously with others at such a disadvantage. There was a long delay as a shooter had shot a round with a double charge. Gun destroyed but he was fine. Long time spent on getting the armorer to assess the situation and to document everthing. Shooters were rooting for one another and one told me good luck with doing eye exams the next day. It was a long drive back to the Bay Area and I got home around midnight.

I was not happy with my score but under the circumstances with the rush-to-wait during the 2 days and the heat, I did leg out.

RoyDean wrote:There have been some comments recently about how easy or not it is to get into the base for matches.

The "welcome center" process is quite strict - it is an active base - it is huge - and I was told that they have had problems in the past with groups of illegal immigrants wandering about - not smart when they often test live heavy munitions!

When I went to shoot the PacFleet match last year I was not permitted to enter alone and I could not get any kind of pass. Fortunately I knew one of the retired Navy guys involved with the match (thank you Craig) and he "escorted" me into the base very early the next morning. He had to go far out of his way to do that, much appreciated.

Why was I not "welcome"? I am a foreign national categorized as a "legal non-resident Alien" (you can tell by the ears  ) and, even though I have had a US Driver's License and ITIN (equivalent of a SS number) for many years, they are "Not for REALID Act". 

I have never had any problem getting access to other bases (notably even the recently revised stricter vetting for Camp Atterbury), but Pendleton have their rules, not doubt they are there for good reason and it is not for me to criticise.

The other requirement (specific to the PacFleet and similar matches I guess) is that all shooters must attend the Safety Briefing early in the morning on the day of participation - no briefing, no shooting. And all guns must be checked by the Navy armorer in attendance to ensure that all safety devices are working.

I am grateful to PacFleet for permitting me to participate and to get my long awaited Hard Leg - yay! It was a frustrating drama of a trip, but successful in the end  . 

If you want to play at Camp Pendleton, know their rules ahead of time and abide by them!

Roy;

Santa Margarita Gun Club runs matches at Pendleton; mostly rifle, carbine and action pistol.  However, each year when their contract with DOD to operate at Pendleton is renewed, all active members may apply for a DBIDS Base access card.  Here's their website, Santa Margarita Gun Club – This is a Non-Federal Entity. It is not part of the Department of Defense or any of its components and it has no governmental status. (smgunclub.org)
Kenny Stuart who sends out the email blasts re upcoming matches is extremely helpful.  Having the DBIDS card made attendance at PacFleet so much easier this year.

Barbara

Wobbley wrote:As I understand it, the only additional requirement for a Non-immigrant Alien is a determination by their home state government that their background meets the home country’s and US requirements for firearms ownership.

Actually, it is much more complicated.

BE Mike wrote:

Wobbley wrote:As I understand it, the only additional requirement for a Non-immigrant Alien is a determination by their home state government that their background meets the home country’s and US requirements for firearms ownership.

Actually, it is much more complicated.

It's also state specific. In CA, for example, you can purchase firearms if you are an H1b visa holder - but you also have to have completed hunter ed and, crucially, not been out of the country in the previous 90 days. Guess how I know that.

For info about Navy matches you can e mail USNMTWEST@gmail.com and or monitor the USNMT website

For Santa Margarita Gun Club 


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