Les Bear accuracy retention

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Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by CRay on 4/17/2014, 10:17 am

I am shooting Bullseye and I am considering getting a Les Baer with the 1.5 accuracy guarantee. However it seems this precision must be accomplished by very close tolerances and I know the guns are very tight when you get them. But as they wear in what is the effect on the accuracy. Does anyone have a Les Baer with the 1.5 guarantee that they have shot a lot and if so, have you tested it's accuracy recently? Basically I'm wondering if the 1.5 inch gun becomes a 3 inch gun after 2000 rounds? So I'm looking for people with real experience to give me some guidance.

Thanks for your help

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Re: Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by dronning on 4/17/2014, 10:40 am

A fellow bullseye shooter just tested his 1 1/2" Baer and it was under 2" @ 50yds (probably still 1 1/2") with over 5,000 rounds through it.

I think if you have a gun that shoots under 2" @ 50yds there is more variation in ammo than the gun at this point.
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Re: Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by DavidR on 4/17/2014, 12:04 pm

First, that 1.5'' grantee was shot with 60.00 a box match ammo, that was hand picked by lots just for testing guns doubtful  you will have access to anything that good. So if it shoots 3'' or less with handloads that's better than 99% can hold and shoot anyway. As to keeping the accuracy, long as the bushing and lockup stay good and shooting lead it should last forever, if shooting fmj's then barrel life is effected and some say will wear out in 50,000 or so.
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Re: Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by pistol champ on 4/17/2014, 6:49 pm

I have 3 of them so I always have a fresh one to use for matches. I have found out that they keep the 1.5 inch groups for about 5k rounds they will easily hold 10 ring until you put over 20k more rounds through them. Just send it back to Les and he will rebuild it back to 1.5 inch and your good to go for another cycle. Les does not use any magic special ammo just Federal 185 match for testing same as you can buy. When I want to see if the gun is still tight I just shoot some of this Federal match ammo and it tells the "health" of the gun. My test targets from my rebuilds have always been a lot smaller than 1.5 inch and the guns hold up just a well as when new.

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Re: Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by DavidR on 4/18/2014, 10:11 am

Ive been dealing with Les for 15 years,He told me his match ammo was lot tested to find what shot best from his  barrels, then  he bought a bunch of it  trust me its not just off shelf stuff, also he does not build 1.5'' guns, they are all built the same its only when he tests them does he throw a higher price on the ones that tested 1.5 or less.
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Re: Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by pistol champ on 4/18/2014, 9:19 pm

DavidR,

Sorry, I had older information about the ammo he used to test with, but really lucky that my guns shoot off the shelf Federal Match ammo really well. It sounds like you do not like his guns and do not believe in his claims, have you had problems that Les did not take care of? My dealings with him have been nothing but great.

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Re: Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by DavidR on 4/19/2014, 10:27 am

Im sorry if  my post came across as a  distaste for Les or his guns because I did not mean it that way. I have been a FFL dealer for over 25years, started shooting bullseye in 2000 and bought my first match grade 45 from Les via Gil Hebard. I have bought at least 20 or more of his pistols to date,  mostly ordered for my bullseye friends but at least 6 for myself, several frame mount and one slide mount and two ballguns. I research everything, its a cross between a hobby and anal obsession to gain all the knowledge I can on the sport and the equipment I buy. I have personally talked to Les many times and he was forthcoming with answers to all my questions. The procedure for test ammo he uses is the same as the AMU and the Marines, they buy many cases of what ever brand match ammo they are going to shoot then test it and keep only the best lots, Les told me he does the same for his guns. When I questioned him on what he did different to the 1.5'' guns that he did not do to the non 1.5'' he told me that every gun was built the exact same way and he did his best to build every gun to the best of his (company's) ability but for some reason some just shot tighter groups than others.( and if they did not shoot at lest 2'' they went back and were gone thru again till they did, excluding ballguns which had to do 3'' or better) Those 1.5'' guns he sold at a higher price, no different than Marvel Precision 22 conversions, the smaller test group they shoot the higher a price they charge for it. As for todays guns compared with older ones I bought, I personally have not been impressed with the trigger jobs, the last several guns had terrible triggers, scratchy, gritty, creepy. Others here have told me they had more troublesome issues but not in my case. When I called Les about the trigger he said that once I shot it a few hundred rounds it would be fine and he did them this way on purpose because when he sent them out slick and 3.5 lbs like he once did that after shooting they would be light and guys were sending them back for adjustment. I don't really buy that but that's what he said. IMO he still makes the best match gun for the money being his are roughly half the price of other match guns, the next one coming in at 3500.00 from Accuracy X. and they go up from there. Sorry for the long winded post. I don't mean to come across as a know it all, I defiantly don't know it all but I still enjoy the quest for knowledge and don't mind sharing what I learn.
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Re: Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by pistol champ on 4/19/2014, 10:36 pm

I like what you say about the triggers "scratchy, gritty, creepy" I think that is how people describe me also.
I'm glad to hear you had good experiences with Les, he is a good guy.

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Re: Les Bear accuracy retention

Post by Jerry Keefer on 4/20/2014, 8:33 am

DavidR wrote:he told me that every gun was built the exact same way and he did his best to build every gun to the best of his (company's) ability but for some reason some just shot tighter groups than others.

Dave,
Les is right about that..
The barrel tester will varify it.. Some barrels will not shoot 1.5 out of the tester.. Most will or be very close.. It's nice to find barrels that test around an inch, since generally a 1/4 inch plus is lost,  from tester to gun. Not every barrel will test at 1 inch.
But in all fairness, a lot depends on chamber design and axis alignments.
Jerry
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