Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

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Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by beeser on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:52 pm

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by jmdavis on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:59 pm

The smaller hole is why you want to have a scoring overlay. Check with Champions Choice, Larry's Guns or your preferred vendor. 

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=SO10

The lower recoil may be due to the bullet not expanding into the grooves in the same way as the LWSC and thus having lower pressures and velocities.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by C.Perkins on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:01 pm

Beeser;

A jacketed bullet usually takes a bit more powder to propel it at the same speed as a lead bullet because of friction.

I use the same bullets using 4.6gr of Bullseye for the long line.

The holes made by a jacketed bullet are usually visually smaller than a semi wadcutter.
Scoring is the same, use an overlay if not sure, if you dispute then call for a plug.

Clarence

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by C.Perkins on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:05 pm

Oh; by the way Beeser;

The Arizona state championships is Oct.25 and 26th.

Clarence

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by DavidR on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:43 pm

you need to load those with 4.3 - 4.5 of BE, then you will see what accuracy is, fmj's always take more powder, but it wont increase the recoil very much more than the 3.8 lead load.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by beeser on Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:39 pm

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by DeweyHales on Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:12 pm

Load them to 1.200" as well.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by DavidR on Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:52 am

yes, 1.200 oal, crimp to .467-.469

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by jmdavis on Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:30 am

Do all of you crimp?

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by DavidR on Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:47 am

jmdavis wrote:Do all of you crimp?

only bullet I don't crimp is a 9mm, don't ask me why, its just what David sams told me too do when loading match 9mm rounds, if you don't crimp a 45acp you will be lucky to get it to feed, unless your guns chamber is well worn or oversized.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by beeser on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:44 pm

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by CR10X on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:06 pm

What David Sams means is that the mouth of case should not be smaller than the average (nominal) dimensions for a 9 mm round.  (0.3785 inch).  I asked about this years ago and have a note on the printed load data sheet that was provided by Sams.

If  you have expanded the 9mm case greater than 0.3785 to facilitate loading, you will need to taper back to that measurement.  

The problem was that many loaders and reloaders were crimping the 9mm way too much, getting bullet jacket deformation and accuracy issues.

Most times crimp is necessary feeding, ignition, and accuracy. Most reloading requires the case mouth be expanded some measureable amount greater than the bullet just to get it seated without any problems.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by beeser on Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:43 am

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by BE Mike on Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:29 am

jmdavis wrote:Do all of you crimp?
I use a .470" crimp for Noslers and everything else. Buddy Chapman set me on this path, when I lived in Texas. Dave Salyer, who with Al Doorman, started the whole Nosler bullet thing for bullseye, told me that they found, in accuracy testing, that the COAL wasn't a critical factor. I've used 1.26" with very good results. Dave also put me on to a load with Alliant Bullseye. He said that it was very comparable in accuracy to Vihtavouri 310, which the Marine Corps pistol team started off using, thanks to Al and Dave. I owe a lot to the generosity of the sharing of the results of hard work of a lot of folks over the years in this sport.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by 3 gun Gus on Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:17 pm

{I wonder why it's not used more than LSWC bullets.}
Not just cost.  Lead shoots very well too.  I have used lead to clean 50Yd. targets and to shoot over 2600. 
And lead is easier on barrels.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by CR10X on Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:09 pm

Try shooting 5 to 10 thousand a year (not to mention the 20 to 30 thousand dry fires) to get to High Master (unsupported civilian) and you'll see why lead is used.  Usually you can shoot almost 2 for one in cost or shoot twice as much for the same money.  Just make sure they are consistent and accurate.  I can say that lead will get you to at least 2649 a few times.......

Cleaning may not be an issue either depending on the bullets and powder used.  I can generally get by with only 3 or 4 full breakdown cleanings a year.  You do need to keep the extractor and its channel cleaned as well as the breach face.  But I don't spend much time at all on the barrel, just some Kroil and a few strokes with the brush (and a little more on the chamber leade.  (Oregon Trail bullets, VV310 and Winchester WLP primers). 
 
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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:01 pm

CR10X:

I've had good results with Oregon Train 125-gr TCs in .357 Mag but have never tried them for BE loads.

Got back into casting my own instead.

But NOW time is getting scarce again and I might try OTBCs in .38, .45 or even 9mm.

Which of their bullets are proving capable of staying well inside the 10-ring at 50???

Thanks.

To the OP, double the cost is for MANY of us a big reason to shoot a lot of lead, so long as it's accurate enough. I have heard from old-timers that .45 ACP barrels last twice as long with lead as with jacketed.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by CR10X on Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:05 am

OT 200 gr for long line and 180 gr for short. 3.85 gr VV 310, 0.369 - 0.370 crimp and 1.238 OAL with shoulder seater for 200 gr loads. Simply drop in the 180 bullet for the short line with no changes. Interesting the velocity is slightly higher with 200 gr due to case capacity used up more by the 200 gr bullet. Vary the OAL up or down to get the best accuracy for each chamber / barrel. The OT bullets are higher cost than cheap cast, but performance is comparable to jacketed at less cost and OT are very consistent in quality and availability.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by Axehandle on Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:19 am

Told many moons ago by an All NG pistolsmith that the guilt edge of accuracy of a 45 ACP wadcutter gun is gone in just a very few 1000 rounds of jacketed bullets.  This was at a time when the NGMTU had virtually limitless budget and resources to test such things.   He went on to say that that number was multiples higher with a cast or swaged bullet.  That said there is still that psychological aspect of believing in what you are shooting.  If there is any doubt in your mind that your ammo will perform you need to change to what makes your head happy.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by jmdavis on Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:17 am

I can't argue against the 1000 round limit with any data, but we get 2k to 3k out of Service Rifle barrels and bullets going 3x+ in velocity generally before we see a falling off of X ring accuracy at 600 yards. 

What would cause the shorter life expectancy of the pistol barrel?

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by beeser on Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:40 am

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by jmdavis on Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:42 am

Well clearly I read that wrong. :-)

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by DavidR on Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:24 am

Yes cost is the most limiting factor to most, but they are used by many more people than you think, many opt to shoot them at 50 yds and lead at 25. as for barrel wear, I have seen and know of many shooters with in the tens of thousands of rounds of fmj that are not to any big degree less accurate. I will agree lead will were a barrel less, but fmjs will never wear a good quality barrel out in a few thousand rounds if it did no body with a 5k custom gun would shoot them, but most do. All that said, unless your a 2600 and above shooter you could do the same with a good lead load, Terry Labbe of magnus bullets is a high master 2650+ shooter and did it all with lead.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by Axehandle on Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:52 pm

Now that statement  opened up a bucket of worms didn't it!  Very Happy   Didn't mean to imply that the gun would not shoot anymore.  The gunsmith was saying that there was a measurable decrease in accuracy in just a few thousand rounds.   The accuracy decrease would be something that the NGMTU gunsmiths had quantitatively measured not necessarily something that the shooter could detect in match shooting..  Don't believe it?  Doesn't matter.  I do.   Wink

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:23 pm

As in many things shooting related, quantification is key.  "I get great accuracy for 10,000 rounds!" provides little useful information other than the person posting can afford to shoot a lot of ammo.

For a 1.5-inch at 50 yard AMU gun to have its accuracy drop to 2.5 inches by say 3,000 rounds lets us know "by how much". Probably no points dropped by the gun for a shooter who breaks 90+% of all shots inside a 1-inch wobble area long line and short line, but might make a difference for a shooter whose wobble area at 25 yards is 3 full inches for the best shots.

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Re: Nosler Competition 185 gr. JHP .45 ACP Bullets

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