Sad day for me and my 22.

First topic message reminder :

Had to throw the towel in on my S&W 41, after  5 weeks of bullseye and only a handfull of rounds without an alibi I contacted S&W with my trouble and got an instant reply and a shipping tag. But Im sure I wont see it back for awhile but just the same a target gun that doesnt work isnt any fun. So back to the old buckmark, it works well but the trigger is not even close, but it will fire without malfunctions. Have any of you sent a firearm in for repair recently? How long was yours gone for. Thanks..

I have two 41 pistols.  Not sure why still.  My hand gets slide bite with almost any grip.  It is hard to find a grip I am comfy with.  I have tried the CMM adaptor, Nil, Rink, Morini, factory and home hacking.  None worked for me.  The oversize trigger guard is a great addition. 

Functioning and accuracy are hard to beat in my two.  One is a 1977ish that sports two barrels.  A 5.5" made from a 7" factory of the era that had the Millett sight.(Millett sight was crummy BTW, but the cut barrel is very accurate.). And the original 5.5" that keyholed at 50ft.  Now it is lined by Alex Hamilton.   The other is a 1959ish with field barrel and 7 3/8".

Jack H wrote:

And the original 5.5" that keyholed at 50ft.  Now it is lined by Alex Hamilton.  

  Yep, I have pulled a fair number of brand new unfired 41barrels and lined them first thing.. Once had a new one that only had two inches of rifling. The rest was smooth bore..  Or maybe that was a free bore experimental prototype....

Jerry Keefer wrote:

Jack H wrote:

And the original 5.5" that keyholed at 50ft.  Now it is lined by Alex Hamilton.  

  Yep, I have pulled a fair number of brand new unfired 41barrels and lined them first thing.. Once had a new one that only had two inches of rifling. The rest was smooth bore..  Or maybe that was a free bore experimental prototype....

Roddy and I looked the keyhole barrel over and could not see an obvious flaw.  Even slugged it, and scrubbed with JB.  CCI SV was the worst with bullets sideways at 50ft.  Other ammos had different degree of keyhole.  Eley actually hit the paper at 50yds but was usually tipped but not sideways.

On the other hand the 7" cut to 5.5" factory barrel has done a 1/2" 5 shot group at 50yd with 900B.

Got it back, The repair order didnt say much other than they replaced the barrel, only a few weeks left of bulleye so going to finish out scored rounds with buckmark, but i did shoot a warm up round with it and it worked 30 times in a row thats a good start, hope to get a few more practice rounds in with it before winter session, finger's crossed..

Shooters,

Having had several 41s and Hammerli 208s since 1969, I can say that every one of my 41s had
extensive troubles.  None of my 208s had any problems except one 208S that the previous owner had tried to ream/hone the chamber with a "split-rod butterfly" and emery cloth.  Fortunately the shade tree gunsmith is no longer with us.  Barrel had to be relined and re-chambered with a pistol match reamer.

BTW---- Who does pistol barrel relining these days?

Jerry Lehrer

jerry lehrer wrote:Shooters,

Having had several 41s and Hammerli 208s since 1969, I can say that every one of my 41s had
extensive troubles.  None of my 208s had any problems except one 208S that the previous owner had tried to ream/hone the chamber with a "split-rod butterfly" and emery cloth.  Fortunately the shade tree gunsmith is no longer with us.  Barrel had to be relined and re-chambered with a pistol match reamer.

BTW---- Who does pistol barrel relining these days?

Jerry Lehrer

I think Alex Hamilton is still taking work..He's older than I. but I have stopped, except for two BE shooters.. I have talked with a couple of smiths who are looking into starting it..It's very rewarding, and the tightest shooting barrels I have ever seen wore liners..The liner lies suspended in adhesive, so it is virtually stress free.. Unlike a machined barrel.  Good machining techniques are still required..
The poor 41 suffers from mass production evils.. and there are few smiths who really focus on the little .22
A good .22 takes as much effort, and sometimes more to build,  than a 1911..
Haven't seen you in a while Jerry, hope you are well..
JerryK

Russ OR wrote:I have a sticker on my range box. It says, "Friends don't let friends shoot S&W 41s".

So funny!  After three years of trying with my 41's, including sending them back to S&W for repair/adjustment, I gave up.  Both of mine provided nothing but alibi, after alibi, during Bullseye matches.  Conclusion- there are so many other good options out there that do not alibi during each and every stage, choose one of them or live with the Model 41 alibi problem.  1911 conversions, Pardini's, Benelli's, FWB 93's, etc.

Is the apparently pervasive alibi problem with the Model 41 mostly caused by failures to fully eject? I've had it only with one brand of ammo, but and empty stuck sideways with the case mouth facing left and the case rim wedged behind the body of the live round that's halfway into the chamber sure seems to me like something that can be "tuned" away like how 1911 extractors and ejectors are fiddled with to keep the empties going out sideways and not straight up and behind your shooting glasses...

IME, that type of jam happens with the one brand of ammo that cycles the action the weakest.

My 41 shoots HV well with the factory recoil spring but will not handle SV with same.
In order to shoot the softer loads it needed a 6# spring.
Yiogo

Jerry Keefer wrote:

jerry lehrer wrote:Shooters,

Having had several 41s and Hammerli 208s since 1969, I can say that every one of my 41s had
extensive troubles.  None of my 208s had any problems except one 208S that the previous owner had tried to ream/hone the chamber with a "split-rod butterfly" and emery cloth.  Fortunately the shade tree gunsmith is no longer with us.  Barrel had to be relined and re-chambered with a pistol match reamer.

BTW---- Who does pistol barrel relining these days?

Jerry Lehrer

I think Alex Hamilton is still taking work..He's older than I. but I have stopped, except for two BE shooters.. I have talked with a couple of smiths who are looking into starting it..It's very rewarding, and the tightest shooting barrels I have ever seen wore liners..The liner lies suspended in adhesive, so it is virtually stress free.. Unlike a machined barrel.  Good machining techniques are still required..
The poor 41 suffers from mass production evils.. and there are few smiths who really focus on the little .22
A good .22 takes as much effort, and sometimes more to build,  than a 1911..
Haven't seen you in a while Jerry, hope you are well..
JerryK

Jerry, I had Alex Hamilton do my 41 barrel about 2 years ago after you had told me you no longer do this work and suggested Mr Hamilton. I called and talked to Alex and he put me on his waiting list and said he would call when he was ready to do my barrel. Alex called back in about a month, barrel was sent and I had it back in about 10 days. I don't know if he still does this work or if his turn around time has gotten longer but the barrel liner and work are excellent and I couldn't be happier. I would wholeheartedly recommend Alex Hamilton if he is still doing this work.


Virgil

I am very fond of  
I love the bull barrel 41,one won me manycanadian national winner titles,one record [..1973].still standing.the weight and handleing just perfect for me. for slow fire, i used a very light grip, weight from trigger g
uard on middle finger. the trigger then felt very light,trigger finger more sensitive. from new the gun had occasional smoke stack, i fixed myself. gone through many euro guns, only liked des 69. just got baikal 35, hopefull gun.

Beeser,
If bullets sticking in chamber during matches is your primary problem, try putting a small drop of light weight oil on the first bullet in each magazine.

If that doesn't solve it, try CAREFULLY polishing the chamber.  Newer model 41's have tight chambers and may need CAREFUL polishing to enable bullets to fully seat in the chamber. To do this, use a 25 caliber bronze brush, tie string on brush that is equal to shell length to mark the maximum depth to polish (so you only polish the chamber), chuck brush into drill, and use jeweler's rouge to polish chamber.

I found this link for model 41s; very informative and shows how to make simple (e.g., pushing out a ping) repairs to correct problems with extractors, firing pins, adjusting trigger weight, and so on. http://guntalk-online.com/Model41maintenance.htm#fieldstrip 

Once the pistol is functioning again, do not use a lot of lube; tiny amounts of oil are all that is needed to keep pistol running. Hope this helps, dipnet

I bought a new Performance Center S&W 41.  Out of the box I was getting stovepipes 4-5 per 100.  After about 1500 rounds of this, I sent to Smith.  They had it for about 6 weeks.  When it returned, I was getting about 10-15 stovepipes per 100.  Sent it back for another 6 weeks.  They ended up replacing the barrel and slide.  When returned the second time, shoots great, almost no malfunctions in an additional 6000 rounds.

Good luck, if you can get it shooting, they are amazing!
Derek

Dipnet wrote:Beeser,
If bullets sticking in chamber during matches is your primary problem, try putting a small drop of light weight oil on the first bullet in each magazine.

If that doesn't solve it, try CAREFULLY polishing the chamber.  Newer model 41's have tight chambers and may need CAREFUL polishing to enable bullets to fully seat in the chamber. To do this, use a 25 caliber bronze brush, tie string on brush that is equal to shell length to mark the maximum depth to polish (so you only polish the chamber), chuck brush into drill, and use jeweler's rouge to polish chamber.

I found this link for model 41s; very informative and shows how to make simple (e.g., pushing out a ping) repairs to correct problems with extractors, firing pins, adjusting trigger weight, and so on. http://guntalk-online.com/Model41maintenance.htm#fieldstrip 

Once the pistol is functioning again, do not use a lot of lube; tiny amounts of oil are all that is needed to keep pistol running. Hope this helps, dipnet

Thanks for the info. but it's out of my hands once again.  I just sent it out to KC to hopefully fix.