9MM load for indoors

View previous topic View next topic Go down

9MM load for indoors

Post by dronning on Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:43 pm

9MM load for indoors
50ft to 25yds, no jacketed bullets allowed.

Looking for load recommendations.

What speeds and any accuracy tests?

- Dave

.356 / 9MM 115 GR RN PARABELLUM BHN 18 from Missouri Bullet looks promising

dronning

Posts : 1122
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 63
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by Schaumannk on Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:38 am

http://www.pennbullets.com/9mm/9mm-caliber.html

I shoot these.   4.2 of VVN340.   Great at the 25 yard line.  Really watch the OAL.  It will change the velocity quite a bit.

Schaumannk

Posts : 251
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Cheyenne, WY

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by noylj on Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:15 am

When they existed, MasterBlaster's 115gn L-SWC was about the most accurate bullet (lead or jacketed) I ever found. BBIs version and Penn's version (I believe) just weren't the same (they looked the same, but did not perform the same for me).
I tend to only shoot 121-125gn bullets.
My favorite commercial lead bullet is Precision Bullet's 124gn moly-koted.
If you want a L-RN, I would recommend Bayou 124gn L-RN.
If you cast your own, either shot as-cast or size to 0.357-0.358". If you order, see if you can get 0.357" bullets.
5.0gn of Power Pistol (if I could find any) is about the best I have found. Very accurate up to 6.0gn, but 5.0gn feels good.
PB is very accurate at 3.4-3.5gn.
231/HP38 is accurate at 4.2gn.
Bullseye is accurate at 3.5-4.0gn (with 3.8gn being preferred).
N320 is accurate at 3.6gn.
Silhouette is good at 3.8-4.0gn
Solo 1000 is sometimes quite accurate from 3.0-3.4gn.
TiteGroup hasn't been the best for lead bullets for me, but it can be accurate from 3.2-4.0gn. It seems, if the gun and bullet like it, it works quite well.
Accurate, for me, is <2.0" at 25 yards and very accurate is <1.5" at 25 yards.

noylj

Posts : 225
Join date : 2012-03-09
Age : 67
Location : SW USA

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by Ed Hall on Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:57 pm

I used some Atlanta Arms ammo that was made with the Penn bullets, referenced by SchaumannK, for an International match that I shot with my Beretta Service Pistol, with excellent 25 yard results.  I have since then slugged my barrel, which showed up at .3570" and purchased some .357 (115gr) bullets from Penn.  It did take a little while to get the optional .357 sized bullets, but I think the wait was worth it.  I haven't worked up my own loads yet, but plan to do so as soon as I can.  I will try to keep this thread in mind if I can come up with some good results.  I probably better do something soon, or the snow might fly before I do...

Ed Hall

Posts : 363
Join date : 2012-09-11
Location : Adirondack Mountains

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by Schaumannk on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:30 pm

Ed Hall wrote:I used some Atlanta Arms ammo that was made with the Penn bullets, referenced by SchaumannK, for an International match that I shot with my Beretta Service Pistol, with excellent 25 yard results.  I have since then slugged my barrel, which showed up at .3570" and purchased some .357 (115gr) bullets from Penn.  It did take a little while to get the optional .357 sized bullets, but I think the wait was worth it.  I haven't worked up my own loads yet, but plan to do so as soon as I can.  I will try to keep this thread in mind if I can come up with some good results.  I probably better do something soon, or the snow might fly before I do...
Ed, do you have the KKM 1/32 barrel in your gun?     Can I assume mine would be the same, if so, or does each barrel need to be slugged individually?  Kate

Schaumannk

Posts : 251
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Cheyenne, WY

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by Ed Hall on Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:16 am

Hi Kate,

No, my barrel is a Bar-Sto in a Sam's Beretta from about 1996.  You'd probably need to slug each one individually, anyway.

Ed Hall

Posts : 363
Join date : 2012-09-11
Location : Adirondack Mountains

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by beeser on Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:07 am

I would like to load some Silver State 9mm 122gr FP hard cast leaded bullets this weekend to try out my recently purchased 9mm Range Officer.  This will be the first time loading anything 9mm.  I have Bullseye, TiteGroup, PB, Red Dot, Power Pistol, Unique and WST to use.  Apparently 122 gr. is not a common bullet and l can't find any load data on it.  Any suggestions?

beeser

Posts : 920
Join date : 2014-06-19

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:04 pm

Just use 124-gr data.

You're looking at only about 1.64% weight difference. Other variables like lead vs. jacketed and bearing surface will affect the results more than the weight will.

For a full-power load, the one I used to use (because I haven't seen this powder anywhere for about two years) was 4.8-4.9 gr Win 231.  Sorry, but I just don't have lead load data for the powders on your list. But I would try with confidence the BE, RD or PP and expect good results from any of them.

GrumpyOldMan

Posts : 452
Join date : 2013-03-08
Location : High Desert Southwest Red Rock Country

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by LenV on Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:23 pm

Beeser,

  Go with 5.1 Power Pistol or 4.2 gr BE.  The BE is not as clean as the PP but both loads will give you good results. As long as you shoot less than 49 yds. Smile

LenV

Posts : 1730
Join date : 2014-01-25
Age : 66
Location : Oargun

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by beeser on Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:43 pm

OldMaster64 wrote:Beeser,

  Go with 5.1 Power Pistol or 4.2 gr BE.  The BE is not as clean as the PP but both loads will give you good results. As long as you shoot less than 49 yds. Smile
Not sure about the OAL.  Anything shown in my Lyman manual is longer than what it takes to cover the lube groove.  What OAL should I use?  Again, this is for a Silver State 122 gr. FP hard cast bullet.

beeser

Posts : 920
Join date : 2014-06-19

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:48 pm

Beeser:

1. How long is the bullet itself?

2. How long is the shank or bearing surface?

3. How much water (grams or grains, I do both) do your fired cases hold, filled to where the water bulges a tiny bit above the mouth?  An average of at least 3 is best.

4. At what OAL for the seated bullet does the case mouth go about 1mm/.04-inch beyond the lube groove?

GrumpyOldMan

Posts : 452
Join date : 2013-03-08
Location : High Desert Southwest Red Rock Country

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by beeser on Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:20 pm

GrumpyOldMan wrote:Beeser:

1. How long is the bullet itself?

2. How long is the shank or bearing surface?

3. How much water (grams or grains, I do both) do your fired cases hold, filled to where the water bulges a tiny bit above the mouth?  An average of at least 3 is best.

4. At what OAL for the seated bullet does the case mouth go about 1mm/.04-inch beyond the lube groove?
1.  0.5440"
2.  0.3030"
3.  I don't understand this question.  These are just standard 9mm cases from Starline.
4.  I'll have to run another bullet to find this one.

beeser

Posts : 920
Join date : 2014-06-19

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by dronning on Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:26 pm

beeser wrote:
GrumpyOldMan wrote:Beeser:

1. How long is the bullet itself?

2. How long is the shank or bearing surface?

3. How much water (grams or grains, I do both) do your fired cases hold, filled to where the water bulges a tiny bit above the mouth?  An average of at least 3 is best.

4. At what OAL for the seated bullet does the case mouth go about 1mm/.04-inch beyond the lube groove?
1.  0.5440"
2.  0.3030"
3.  I don't understand this question.  These are just standard 9mm cases from Starline.
4.  I'll have to run another bullet to find this one.

# 3.  Starline Brass run about 12.6  Weigh the case empty and filled with water the difference is the answer.

Beeser the reason he is asking about case capacity is there is a difference between manufacturers and in some cases (pun intended) within the same mfg depending what line it came off or year produced.  A case with less capacity will develop higher pressures and give you different results.

Starline is some of the most, if not the most, consistent brass out there.

- Dave

ps bigger impact on rifle - never mix brass if you are going for accuracy. 

For pistol I know guys that shoot mixed brass on the short line but always use the same brand at 50yards.

dronning

Posts : 1122
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 63
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by beeser on Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:24 pm

OK, here are the answers to all ...

1.  0.5440"
2.  0.3030"
3.  14.0 grains avg.
4.  1.0460"

beeser

Posts : 920
Join date : 2014-06-19

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:52 pm

Beeser:

Thanks for the data.

I am *guessing* with some reasonable estimates and methodology that 5.1 Power Pistol under that bullet in your brass will go about 1060 fps and generate about 21,300 PSI (piezo).

3.5 BE might go just over 1,000 fps at a little over 20,200 PSI.

4.0 BE, 1120 fps at 26,900 PSI.

4.2 BE, 1160 and 29,900 PSI

With BE, if your speed is more than 1,225, it's probably beyond SAAMI spec.

With PP, velocities above 1,250, same warning.

Primer radius might be okay for "reading pressure signs", but few people I know can tell the difference between 30,000 and 35,000 PSI with small primers.

As usual, work 'em up and watch it! I am not responsible if I have a typo here and you blindly rely on it.

Later,

GrumpyOldMan

GrumpyOldMan

Posts : 452
Join date : 2013-03-08
Location : High Desert Southwest Red Rock Country

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by beeser on Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:04 pm

GrumpyOldMan wrote:Beeser:

Thanks for the data.

I am *guessing* with some reasonable estimates and methodology that 5.1 Power Pistol under that bullet in your brass will go about 1060 fps and generate about 21,300 PSI (piezo).

3.5 BE might go just over 1,000 fps at a little over 20,200 PSI.

4.0 BE, 1120 fps at 26,900 PSI.

4.2 BE, 1160 and 29,900 PSI

With BE, if your speed is more than 1,225, it's probably beyond SAAMI spec.

With PP, velocities above 1,250, same warning.

Primer radius might be okay for "reading pressure signs", but few people I know can tell the difference between 30,000 and 35,000 PSI with small primers.

As usual, work 'em up and watch it! I am not responsible if I have a typo here and you blindly rely on it.

Later,

GrumpyOldMan
Many thanks GrumpyOldMan!  How did you derive all of this?  If calculations are involved I would like to learn this myself.

Oh, I forgot to ask - what OAL should I use?

beeser

Posts : 920
Join date : 2014-06-19

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:26 pm

Beeser:

It's an internal ballistics program called QuickLOAD. Very proprietary, multi-variable calculations that are way beyond me.

All this is calculated based on your data, including OAL of 1.046.

Like any mathematical model, garbage in = garbage out. Safety margins are up to the user, YMMV and all that. Canister grade powders are supposed to be consistent lot-to-lot (like Win 231 has been for me since the early 1980s), but there are tales all over the internet, and preceding the internet, and not reported on the internet, of individuals who are convinced they got a lot of XYZ that burns faster/slower than the last one.

QuickLOAD is sold in the US through NECONOS or something like that.

http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm

Thanks!

GrumpyOldMan

Posts : 452
Join date : 2013-03-08
Location : High Desert Southwest Red Rock Country

Back to top Go down

Re: 9MM load for indoors

Post by Sponsored content Today at 4:19 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum