Rounds not chambering

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Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

My Newest batch of reloads seem to be giving me a little bit of a problem.  With the slide already to the rear loaded magazine inserted then drop the slide.  The round goes about half way in the chamber then gets hung up.  Happened a few times but it never happened while firing.  Only on the first round.  I tried some of the older reloads and didn't have the issue.  I have a feeling my seating depth might of ben too long.  I saved a round and it's OAL is 1.217  crimp is .469

These are Zero LswcHP 185 gr.

The only thing I can think of is I belled my cases a tad bit more because I thought I was getting lead shaved off a bit.  The ones that jammed had a pretty good gouge in the brass about a third of the way down..Not sure Gouge is the right word but where it look like it jammed up.

Any suggestions?  Load details are as follows

185 LWCHP Zero
Fede Brass
WSPP
4.0 Bullseye

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:25 pm

Virgil Kane wrote:I have used Magnus swaged 185 grain SWCHP's which are basically the same as Zero and never had a problem with a dented/deformed nose on the bullet. I don't have the spec's at my disposal right now but from what I see in your pictures I loaded my Magnus SWHP's a bit longer OAL that what it appears on you pic's.


Virgil
I'd be interested in your OAL if you could

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by Dr.Don on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:26 pm

Sometimes a particular bullet will be a feeding problem that just isn't worth solving.  I have problems with the Nosler 185 JHP in my gun for instance.  Try some Magnus #801's.  These are cast 185 grain button nose SWC's.  Very accurate and the short bullet feeds in almost everything.

I'm not really sure why all the interest in hollow points these days anyway.  I know of no reason they would be aerodynamically better or more accurate in a pistol bullet, and their shape is tailor made for feeding issues.  For many years Federal red box match was the top ammo in 45 and it used a jacketed bullet almost exactly the shape of the Magnus 801.

Just my 2 cents, with a little admitted frustration with the Noslers........

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:27 pm

dronning wrote:I have a mark on mine but no deformity.  I use the Zero 185gr HPSWC on the short line and their 185gr JHP on the long line.

Les Baer wadgun 13lb recoil spring, TRIPP Research mags - OAL is 1.25.

- Dave



Thanks Dave

I have to find out what the stock spring is on the Range Officer.  I bet thats part of the problem

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by james r chapman on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:27 pm

I went back and checked my lead load. It's the Magnus 185 swc #811
Seated to 1.250...

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by Virgil Kane on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:31 pm

Just measured mine with 185 grain Magnus SWCHP.  OAL 1.230, shoulder to rim .933.

Also what kind of lips are on the magazines you use and are they 7 round or 8 round mags? I have been using Checkmate 7 round mags with the hybrid lips. Maybe trying a mag with the standard GI lips would help because they tend to release the cartridge a bit higher and sooner than hybrid or WC magazine lips. I had problems with 8 round magazines shooting lead SWC's and had problems with mags that had extra power springs in them also. YMMV


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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:32 pm

james r chapman wrote:I went back and checked my lead load. It's the Magnus 185 swc #811
Seated to 1.250...
Thanks a million James

I checked Spring and it looks to be a 16lb spring...Yea, I need to tame that down a bit

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by Virgil Kane on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:36 pm

As Dr Don suggested try the Magnus 801's. That's all I use now and they are very accurate even at 50 yards. They are button nose and seem short but have the same bearing length as 200 grain SWC's.


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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:44 pm

https://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/19/29/63/09/img_3815.jpg

Tried a bit longer OAL 1.250 and used a GI mag...Much better.  I will say this lead is very soft.  I can almost deform the nose with my fingers...Almost  Smile  I gotta think the lighter spring will also help.  Gonna try the Magnus as well  Need to order up some.

Even with the dented nose I think they will be fine for 25 yards

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by Virgil Kane on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:49 pm

If your picture is showing a slight bit of nose deformation like I see it then I don't think that little bit will hurt at 50 yards. If increasing the OAl helped why not try another .010 or so and see if it goes away all together if they will still fit in the magazine?

Yep swaged bullets are soft !


Last edited by Virgil Kane on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:54 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:51 pm

Virgil Kane wrote:If your picture is showing a slight bit of nose deformation like I see it then I don't think that little bit will hurt at 50 yards. If increasing the OAl helped why not try another .010 or so and see if it goes away all together?

Yep swaged bullets are soft !
1.250 and try longer....Ok will do.

Those Magnus 801 are stubby little buggers..But who cares if they shoot is all that matters to me.

And yes, the bottom is dented just a tad and I also took a pic with the Mag so you all could see that too

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by Virgil Kane on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:01 am

Here's a picture of the different magazine lips. This may help you.




From your picture it looks like you have hybrid lips on your magazine. Even though they may be from the military doesn't necessarily mean they are GI lips.  Also, is that a plastic follower in that mag ? I have never used anything but a metal follower. If plastic could it be that the follower is rubbing on the inside of the mag or getting twisted and hanging up? One other thing, does this only happen when you load 5 rounds? Does it do the same thing when you load only 4, or 3 or only 1 round?

I don't necessarily know if I would start changing out recoil springs just yet. I don't think that is the problem if it was I would think it would do the same for all the rounds in the magazine. IMO I think it's either the cartridge OAL, the mag lips, the mag follower or maybe to strong of a magazine spring ( stronger is not always better in a magazine spring).

Once again YMMV but I would check out the small things first and eliminate them before diving into changing the springs.  BTW my Clark LS and a BE gun I built both have 16# recoil springs in them and the both have 30mm Ultradots slide mounted. I use to go with the 14# spring and found I got better lock-up and 50 yard accuracy with the 16# recoil spring and never have any problems with FTF or FTE while using 4.0 of Bullseye and the Magnus #801 button nose 185 grain SWC in these guns.

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:48 am

Yea, I think these wilsons are the Heavy Duty Combat mags.  The follower is plastic and domed on the top.  I'd be interested in trying those wadcutter style.  By functioning the slide slow and by hand it does look like the mag is releasing the rounds late in the process.  I loaded 6 dummy rounds and each one got the dent...Not as bad as the first one but it's still there.  I think its gonna happen by the nature of it hitting the feed ramp.  With a hard cast bullet you cant even tell.  If I can get the same accuracy out of a 200 SWC Hard Cast then guess what I'm doing...LOL.

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by Virgil Kane on Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:19 pm

The wad cutter style will release the cartridge the latest of the three different lip styles. The GI will release the fastest/soonest and the hybrid somewhere in between. I would think that the WC style would make your problem worse.


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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Virgil Kane wrote:The wad cutter style will release the cartridge the latest of the three different lip styles. The GI will release the fastest/soonest and the hybrid somewhere in between. I would think that the WC style would make your problem worse.


Virgil
Good info

Thank you

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by farmboy on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:35 pm

your OAL is to short for your gun most likely.  Load to 1.23 to 1.3 and you should not have an issue .  You need a little more of the shoulder exposed. Most likely the edge of the case is catching.  My guess is even though you think it is a bullet nose issue its is more or a shoulder  issue - you need a little more sticking out

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:43 pm

farmboy wrote:your OAL is to short for your gun most likely.  Load to 1.23 to 1.3 and you should not have an issue .  You need a little more of the shoulder exposed. Most likely the edge of the case is catching.  My guess is even though you think it is a bullet nose issue its is more or a shoulder  issue - you need a little more sticking out
I think this is the case...I didn't have time to confirm today but when I seated out a bit more it got better.  Gonna seat out long tomorrow and keep seating deeper till I get the plunk.

Whats the best case head location in conduction with the barrel hood.  My current loads sit well below the hood with the plunk

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by james r chapman on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:46 pm

You will find that you will probably be limited by your magazines as to how long they can be...

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:47 pm

james r chapman wrote:You will find that you will probably be limited by your magazines as to how long they can be...
Darn good point

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by Rob Kovach on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:57 pm

Whats the best case head location in conduction with the barrel hood.  My current loads sit well below the hood with the plunk
It should not be well below the barrel hood....It should be pretty close to even, and if I remember correctly, that should be determined by how the chamber is cut and how long the brass is.
Jerry Keefer?

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:07 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:
Whats the best case head location in conduction with the barrel hood.  My current loads sit well below the hood with the plunk
It should not be well below the barrel hood....It should be pretty close to even, and if I remember correctly, that should be determined by how the chamber is cut and how long the brass is.
Jerry Keefer?
So now I'm confused..Is something wrong with my chamber or is it the way I'm seating my bullets..Or my brass is junk?

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by Dr.Don on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:09 pm

The 45 headspaces on the mouth of the case.  A properly headspaced barrel should not have the case drop more than a few thousandths below the end of the hood.  That said, many 45's have excess headspace.  It is not optimum for good accuracy but they will still run ok because the inertial firing pin design has enough "reach" to fire reliably in spite of the excess headspace.  Match barrels come with short chambers and the final chambering is done after the barrel hood is fitted.  Typically one cuts the final chamber depth for minimum excess headspace in order to get best accuracy.  Some of the old wadguns with welded up and refit barrels (including my Clark) have excess headspace because of the weldup and are still accurate.  But you would never cut the chamber that way intentionally.

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by james r chapman on Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:50 am

Take some of your sized cases and chamber them. They should be as Don and Rob says just even with the end of the chamber barrel hood. Or maybe the thickness of a paper below.

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:28 am

james r chapman wrote:Take some of your sized cases and chamber them. They should be as Don and Rob says just even with the end of the chamber barrel hood. Or maybe the thickness of a paper below.
I sized some cases and they plunked right in there.  Its just a tiny bit below the hood...not a whole lot at all.  

Now, If I seat the bullets out a bit longer I can make it even with the hood but that would mean I'm headspacing off the shoulder correct?  And I don't want that?

I really thought it went a lot lower than the hood than it actually does..I'm glad it does not....Whew

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by james r chapman on Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:57 am

Good. now, you can seat the bullet out till it just raises the bullet base up to the hood. Then run the bullet a little deeper (say, .010)  to prevent jamming it into the rifling and preventing you from being able to extract a loaded round.
Put a good crimp on it, David's .469-.470, will do, you'll feel the slight increase in lever pressure when you've got it right. measure it, then press it hard against the tabletop edge and see if it moves....
Then, put 5 in a magazine to make sure they all go in, and come out.

and that's the short of it...

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Re: Rounds not chambering

Post by lablover on Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:23 pm

Well, after re visiting my reloading process my dented or deformed bullets are now at a minimum.  I was not seating out long enough, not enough crimp.  

I have to say "Thank You" yto all the help I got from the members here.  Kudos Gentlemen!  

Joe

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