BE load for 200gr swaged bullet

Back in 2012, there was a post asking for BE loads for 185 gr SWC-HP  swaged.  In that post, a common recommendation was 3.9 - 4.0 grains of Bullseye powder.
 
But this post is asking about load data for the 200 gr SWC swaged lead bullet.  The bullet is the non-hollow point from Zero (code R117).  I am considering it for the long line and wanted to ask the community about the load data you use.
 
Thank you.
 
p.s. I am making the assumption that the heavier, 200gr swaged bullet would be more accurate than the 185gr swaged bullet at 50 yards.

I don't load myself and I use Zero factory reloads. I shoot their 200 Gr LSWC loads at the short line and until very recently, at the long line. Here's the response from Zero I received when I asked them about the powder load: "Our 45 200 SWC's are currently loaded with 4.2 of Bullseye, with a velocity of around 750 fps"

I have no complaints about their 200 Gr loads at the long line. I am now trying their 185 Gr JHPs, just because I want to try something new.

I wouldn't make the assumption you did. The 185 grain swaged LSWCHP offers the same profile as the 200 gr., but offers a little less recoil. Many folks who have machine rest tested the two, have found the 185 grain more accurate at 50 yards. If you are intent on changing to the 200 gr. LSWC, you can use the same load data. It depends on your sighting system, i.e. irons vs. slide mounted scope vs. frame mounted scope. I find that a load of 4.0 grains of Alliant Bullseye works well with my accurized Colt series 70 with slide mounted UltraDot and 12 lb. recoil spring.

Summer short line load is 3.7 BE with a 11 lb recoil spring and an 18lb hammer spring. Winter load is 4.0 with everything else the same. I shoot this load alot indoors. I believe it is a little more accurate than the 185 lswc.

BE Mike wrote:... If you are intent on changing to the 200 gr. LSWC, you can use the same load data. It depends on your sighting system ...

BE Mike, I am not intent on it, but whenever I talk to much better shooters than me about CAST bullets, they shoot 200 for the long line and 185 for the short.  I am making the assumption that the same would be true for swaged.  But, it is an assumption.

Good question about sighting system.  It is a slide mounted Aimpoint H-1 on a 1911.  The recoil spring is 10#.

200 gr Speer lswc . 50 yds 3.8 grs..  At 25 yards 3.5gr Bullseye powder. 
https://ammoseek.com/reloading/bullets/.452-diameter/Speer-target

joy2shoot wrote:

BE Mike wrote:... If you are intent on changing to the 200 gr. LSWC, you can use the same load data. It depends on your sighting system ...

BE Mike, I am not intent on it, but whenever I talk to much better shooters than me about CAST bullets, they shoot 200 for the long line and 185 for the short.  I am making the assumption that the same would be true for swaged.  But, it is an assumption.

Good question about sighting system.  It is a slide mounted Aimpoint H-1 on a 1911.  The recoil spring is 10#.

As an Expert, you should be testing ammo at 50 yards. When I was competing, I used the Nosler 185 gr. JHP at 50 yards and Star swaged 185 gr. LSWCHP, because it worked for me. Pretty much will group well at 25 yards. You might want to find the lightest load to minimize recoil there, though. It's fine to listen to better shooters, because it saves some time trying to "reinvent the wheel", but you need to verify for yourself. As an Expert, you should have your loads and equipment pretty much established and be working on the mental side of the game IMHO, as well as, training; focusing especially on your weaknesses.

+1 for BE Mike post. FYI: High quality cast bullets from Summers Enterprises are $70.00/1000 for 200 SWC. I'm using 3.5 BE at both 50 and 25 with excellent accuracy.

3.8 WST has been working well in my gun. Both 25 and 50 yards. 10 lb spring.  Extended Bomar full length rib open sights.

3.5 grain of BE with a good cast 200 grain LSWC for both distances. Shoots good for me.

BE Mike wrote:As an Expert, you should be ...

I created this post to get some specific recommendations to a specific question.  I do not want, or need, a lecture from anyone on what they think I should and should not be working on.  Ralf Schumann, who competed in the rapid fire pistol event in the Olympics and won two silver and three gold and is one of the most decorated shooters, says he rethinks his techniques, tactics, and equipment every year and makes changes where needed.  He believed change was key to his consistency.

Tim:H11 wrote:3.5 grain of BE with a good cast 200 grain LSWC for both distances. Shoots good for me.

Tim, I was using 200 gr cast LSWC from a reputable manufacturer, but in several matches during slow fire, where I called the shot in the 9/10 ring, I scoped the shot and saw them in the 6 ring.  After discussing with a couple more-experienced-shooters-than-me, we narrowed it down to most likely very inconsistent bullet weight or inconsistent powder charge.  So in the next few matches I shot JHP using the exact same press and dies.  No fliers.  I then weighted several of the bullets and found several significantly out of norm.  I really do not want to get into weighing bullets so I thought I would try swaged.  What manufacturer has given you consistent cast bullets?  Thanks.

joy2shoot wrote:

Tim:H11 wrote:3.5 grain of BE with a good cast 200 grain LSWC for both distances. Shoots good for me.

Tim, I was using 200 gr cast LSWC from a reputable manufacturer, but in several matches during slow fire, where I called the shot in the 9/10 ring, I scoped the shot and saw them in the 6 ring.  After discussing with a couple more-experienced-shooters-than-me, we narrowed it down to most likely very inconsistent bullet weight or inconsistent powder charge.  So in the next few matches I shot JHP using the exact same press and dies.  No fliers.  I then weighted several of the bullets and found several significantly out of norm.  I really do not want to get into weighing bullets so I thought I would try swaged.  What manufacturer has given you consistent cast bullets?  Thanks.

zero swagged are more constant then cast bullets in my weighing, swagged can get damaged at the base of the bullet more easily. I used zero 200lswc swagged 3.8BE long and short

joy2shoot wrote:

BE Mike wrote:As an Expert, you should be ...

I created this post to get some specific recommendations to a specific question.  I do not want, or need, a lecture from anyone on what they think I should and should not be working on.  Ralf Schumann, who competed in the rapid fire pistol event in the Olympics and won two silver and three gold and is one of the most decorated shooters, says he rethinks his techniques, tactics, and equipment every year and makes changes where needed.  He believed change was key to his consistency.

Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful, based upon my experience. I'll refrain from responding to your posts in the future.

I use Magnus swaged 200 & 185 gr.  They are as good as they come.  Magnus also supports this forum and offers a 15% discount to forum members.  Just put "Bullseye-L Forum Member" in the comments.  Try 'em, you'll like 'em.  Magnus bullets are highly regarded by bullseye shooters.

As a builder I use 200 lswc to test the pistols because 200’s always shoot well. Not all barrels like 185 lswc for 50 yds. I’ve never seen fliers greater than 2” from ammo at 50 yds with the 45; poorly crimped will shoot extreme fliers not typically the bullet itself. 38 special is a whole different story. 
3.8-4.2 BE will get’er done.
Jon

Thanks for the info Jon.  When I start creating test loads, I will check the crimp more than I usually do.

p.s. I have a Kart barrel

joy2shoot wrote:

Tim:H11 wrote:3.5 grain of BE with a good cast 200 grain LSWC for both distances. Shoots good for me.

Tim, I was using 200 gr cast LSWC from a reputable manufacturer, but in several matches during slow fire, where I called the shot in the 9/10 ring, I scoped the shot and saw them in the 6 ring.  After discussing with a couple more-experienced-shooters-than-me, we narrowed it down to most likely very inconsistent bullet weight or inconsistent powder charge.  So in the next few matches I shot JHP using the exact same press and dies.  No fliers.  I then weighted several of the bullets and found several significantly out of norm.  I really do not want to get into weighing bullets so I thought I would try swaged.  What manufacturer has given you consistent cast bullets?  Thanks.

I've never bothered to weigh bullets. I've never bothered to check consistency in casted bullets... besides my own while learning to make good ones. It is true that a swaged bullet due to manufacturing design will be more consistent than a cast bullet. I've never shot swaged bullets. I started out shooting the 45 casting my own bullets. Then when I ran out of time to do it myself so I started buying commercially cast bullets because of low cost. Low cost isn't always the best for accuracy but from my hand I have been shooting regularly in the low/mid to mid 90's with an occasional high 90's target. I have not had any wild flyers that when I scoped the shot had to say "where did that come from?!" If I shot a bad shot, I knew when it happened before going to the spotting scope..... maybe you got a bad batch of bullets.... I don't know. I do know that swaged is better than cast but that doesn't mean you can't shoot well with cast. I like the results I get with Magnus bullets. Magnus, Summers, Falcon, Missouri, ... I think most commercial casters are using the same Magma Engineering casting machines and molds. Granted there is technique involved. And quality of lead being used.