Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Frustration

+25
TonyH
kidneyboy
JNW1
farmboy
ebinnion
Allgoodhits
bullseye67
DanQ
DA/SA
willnewton
Steve K
David R
chopper
vmax606
dronning
mikemyers
CR10X
Vociferous
kjanracing
Steve B
zanemoseley
jglenn21
john bickar
Wobbley
Wadcutter
29 posters

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Frustration Empty Frustration

Post by Wadcutter 1/20/2019, 3:08 pm

If there exists a more frustrating discipline than bullseye pistol, I'd like to know what it might be.

A little over a year in and my scores are hovering around the lower end of sharpshooter.

I've noticed a new trend:

My slow fire scores are gradually improving but it seems they are doing so at the cost of my sustained fire scores.

What is up with that?


Wadcutter

Posts : 1
Join date : 2017-12-19

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by Wobbley 1/20/2019, 3:56 pm

When you train, shoot 40% SF then 60% RF: 75% 22, 25% CF.
Wobbley
Wobbley

Posts : 3702
Join date : 2015-02-12

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by john bickar 1/20/2019, 5:28 pm

Are you frustrated to the point where you are not enjoying bullseye anymore?

If so, I would suggest taking a step back and asking yourself why you do this. It is challenging, it is often frustrating, it is sometimes rewarding, but it should be (on balance) enjoyable.

I have been doing this a looooooong time and I have had more bad days than good. Nevertheless, that leaves a lot of room for good days, and the frequency of the bad days makes the good days that much sweeter.

I have a saying that I repeat to myself on the days when everything seems to be going south, and that is, "Every match gives us an opportunity to work on something. Today, we work on attitude!"

Believe it or not, that helps. If I'm on the firing line, I'm not at work, I am out doing something that I enjoy, I'm (often) outside, I'm not stuck in traffic, I'm not cleaning up dirty diapers, I am smelling gunsmoke, I am upright and competing...the list goes on and on.

I'd recommend giving yourself latitude for some perspective.

BTW, Sharpshooter after a year is nothing to sneeze at.
john bickar
john bickar

Posts : 1879
Join date : 2011-07-09
Location : Menlo Park, CA

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by jglenn21 1/20/2019, 5:58 pm

Amen to upright
jglenn21
jglenn21

Posts : 2371
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 74
Location : monroe , ga

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by zanemoseley 1/20/2019, 6:16 pm

Golf is worse. Just play a few rounds of golf then bullseye will look appealing lol.

My worst frustration has been recoil anticipation when shooting 45, aka flinching. Going to a slide mount instead of a frame mount helped but after that its just been a lot of time behind the trigger. I'm getting close to master but not a bit of it has come easy.

zanemoseley

Posts : 2547
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Cookeville, TN

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by john bickar 1/20/2019, 6:41 pm

jglenn21 wrote:Amen to upright

There's a lot to be said for "upright". Every morning that I still can fog a mirror is a good one.
john bickar
john bickar

Posts : 1879
Join date : 2011-07-09
Location : Menlo Park, CA

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by Steve B 1/21/2019, 4:49 pm

john bickar wrote:Are you frustrated to the point where you are not enjoying bullseye anymore?

If so, I would suggest taking a step back and asking yourself why you do this. It is challenging, it is often frustrating, it is sometimes rewarding, but it should be (on balance) enjoyable.

I have been doing this a looooooong time and I have had more bad days than good. Nevertheless, that leaves a lot of room for good days, and the frequency of the bad days makes the good days that much sweeter.

I have a saying that I repeat to myself on the days when everything seems to be going south, and that is, "Every match gives us an opportunity to work on something. Today, we work on attitude!"

Believe it or not, that helps. If I'm on the firing line, I'm not at work, I am out doing something that I enjoy, I'm (often) outside, I'm not stuck in traffic, I'm not cleaning up dirty diapers, I am smelling gunsmoke, I am upright and competing...the list goes on and on.

I'd recommend giving yourself latitude for some perspective.

BTW, Sharpshooter after a year is nothing to sneeze at.

This post makes me wish there was a LIKE button...

Steve B

Posts : 530
Join date : 2011-06-16
Location : Elkhart, IN

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by kjanracing 1/21/2019, 9:24 pm

Wobbley wrote:When you train, shoot 40% SF then 60% RF: 75% 22, 25% CF.
Wobbley, why 75% .22  when CF is 66% of a 2700?
Kurt
kjanracing
kjanracing

Posts : 410
Join date : 2015-02-17
Location : Arvada, Colorado

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by Wobbley 1/21/2019, 9:53 pm

Because it’s cheaper, and the lower recoil doesn’t hide fundamentals flaws.
Wobbley
Wobbley

Posts : 3702
Join date : 2015-02-12

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by Vociferous 1/22/2019, 4:58 am

+1 to Upright.  Life can be real rough.  Unfortunately, we don't sometimes realize our blessings, until faced with not being upright.  If you are frustrated, that means you care.  I took a total crap in the team match at Perry last year; I feel I let my Team down.  The rest of the Team would never say that (and probably don't think it), but I do.  Because I'm working extra hard this off season, I expect a better outcome, next time.

Until then, I say a prayer each evening and morning, that I'm upright. 

Immortal words of wisdom:
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
Vociferous
Vociferous

Posts : 172
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by CR10X 1/22/2019, 5:50 am

Every time you reach a plateau, go back to the basics and review.  Am I seeing everything I need to see?  Is my trigger operation smooth, unhesitating and confident?  Is my grip firm, aligned and consistent throughout the shot or string?  Is my body position relaxed and comfortable and sustaining the best platform for consistent wobble?  Am I training on specifics (90 % range / dryfire time) and then practicing ( 10 % time) to see results; training for improvement and practicing like a match?  Is my mental outlook appropriate? (Observation and reflection when training, learning the flow when practicing, just shooting and enjoying the matches?) Am I using my non shooting time appropriately? (Physical training, reading, journal review or just spending all the time cleaning and reloading?)

Expectation is the mother of frustration.  Training replaces expectations with the knowledge of what you can do.  Knowledge and awareness of your ability enhances relaxation and enjoyment, which leads to better training, which leads to better performance. 

If you expect to do better than you trained, you will be frustrated.  If you train, you will be better than you ever expected to be. 

CR

CR10X

Posts : 1735
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by mikemyers 1/22/2019, 7:17 am

CR10X wrote:..........(Observation and reflection when training, learning the flow when practicing, just shooting and enjoying the matches?) ........
Seems to me that if you have all the frustration because you're not doing as well as you think you could, instead you could consider you're out there doing something you presumably enjoy - and you don't enjoy it, why do it at all?   I smiled at what CR wrote, especially the last part.  

I've been to only two matches so far, and I told myself to treat them as nothing more than "organized practice".  I want to be in more this year, but the only person I need to "beat" is me from the previous time.

Instead of competing with all the "professionals", just compete with yourself.
Maybe get yourself a new gun.  That will bring smiles to your face!

I've got all my own issues to get through, and I'm never going to be a "pro", but I love shooting, especially Bullseye.  And now Black Powder too.  And reloading!


One last thing - maybe you can do something I've never been able to - find a coach, who can correct mistakes you don't realize you are making.
mikemyers
mikemyers

Posts : 3940
Join date : 2016-07-26
Age : 78
Location : South Florida, and India

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by mikemyers 1/22/2019, 8:40 am

Wadcutter wrote:.........What is up with that?

You might want to read this article, and see how you compare to what's being described:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/1/31/a-clinic-on-precision-pistol-fundamentals-part-i/
mikemyers
mikemyers

Posts : 3940
Join date : 2016-07-26
Age : 78
Location : South Florida, and India

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by dronning 1/22/2019, 9:15 am

All great advice!  It all really comes down to the individual shot and to be able to repeat a good shot you must develop good fundamentals (mechanical) AND a good shot process (mental*).  The more times you repeat "the process" perfectly the better your score.  Self analysis is a must, did I follow my fundamentals & process perfectly.  The result of that question becomes your training plan.

Yes it's a simple as 1 shot at a time, but retaining focus and discipline to string 10 or 270 great shots together is the hard part. Remember this sport is 95%+ Mental.  Trying to improve your score is frustrating because it's impossible to develop a plan to improve your score, you can only improve your shot(s).


- Dave
"High Master's don't shoot great scores, they shoot great shots, a lot of them."
dronning
dronning

Posts : 2582
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 68
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by vmax606 1/22/2019, 9:26 am

 I want to be in more this year, but the only person I need to "beat" is me from the previous time.

Instead of competing with all the "professionals", just compete with yourself.
[/quote]

Well, actually target shooting, bowling, golf and a few other sport. That is exactly what you do, you against yourself, unlike tennis or boxing or billiard, what the other guys do has no affect on what you do.

To OP, from MY experience :

Your improvement does not go up gradually but goes up in steps, every time you mastered something, you jump up to the next step.

vmax606

Posts : 10
Join date : 2018-06-05

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by CR10X 1/22/2019, 9:37 am

A coupe of other items to consider for the OP.   

In itself, having the feeling of frustration is not bad and is normal.  Actually its "expected" when we don't perform or get the outcome we wish when we are doing something we want to do (better) and generally enjoy.  So accept the feeling of frustration, but acknowledge that it is only an indicator of our desire and then move on to something more productive.  (See John's comment above on attitude!)

Secondly, as Vociferous commented, life hands us issues and challenges that we have to deal with as well, most of them not related to shooter, but just life in general.  It's hard to enjoy our pleasures when we have other issues and feelings about more important aspects of our lives (and those around us).  Examine the causes of frustration, sometimes they are not at the range at all.  

Now, believe me, I've faced frustration (and stared at stupid in the mirror) a lot.  Have you ever lost a match because you didn't load a magazine in rapid fire?  (I don't mean the ammo in the magazine, but the magazine in the gun!) Talk about a learning experience about distraction, frustration and attitude.  Or shoot a 6 or 7 on the very first shot?  But you step up and say: "I can still make a go of this. Just do what we trained to do."     

Lastly, as I have said before; shooting, golf and sex have some things in common.  You can enjoy them alone, in general they are better when you have someone else with you that enjoys them too and its even better when that person knows what they are doing.  The problem is generally finding a good teacher or coach because everybody thinks they already know how to do them. 

Smile and enjoy it.

CR

CR10X

Posts : 1735
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by chopper 1/22/2019, 10:54 am

To OP, if you started later in life it might take a while to develop consistency. I can't find a clinic close by so I try to go to as many matches as I can afford. Remember those basic fundamentals and always come back to them when you have trouble. I'll have a couple a good slow stages then shoot a visible miss in timed and get nothing in the black, only to come back with the next 5 in a tight group of Xs. That happens when I keep my mind in it and apply what is in my shot plan that's taped on my box lid.
 I used to go to a match so pumped up thinking I could shoot an expert score easily and miss the paper or crossfire the person next to me. If you want something that will put you down in the dumps do that twice in 45 and do it to the person on your left and again later to your right. I was so frustrated in that match I wanted to throw my pistol at the target and quit, this brought tears to my eyes. But I couldn't hit that target if I heaved it as hard as I could, it was 50 yd away. I kept my cool, put the gun on the bench and thought about it, I went back to the fundamentals and finished the rest in the black.
 I'm now using less pasters, but still struggle some with the 45, and can say it's improving slowly.
Stan

chopper

Posts : 634
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 70
Location : Western Iowa

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by Wobbley 1/22/2019, 11:14 am

dronning wrote:Remember this sport is 95%+ Mental. 


- Dave
"High Master's don't shoot great scores, they shoot great shots, a lot of them."
To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  Bullseye is 95% mental, the other half is fundamental.
Wobbley
Wobbley

Posts : 3702
Join date : 2015-02-12

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by David R 1/22/2019, 11:55 am

I have been in and out of the sport since 1987.   When I first started, it was a bunch of guys shooting below the pool in a high school.   We shot slow, timed and rapid at 50 feet  with rimfire and center fire.  No scores were kept.  A whistle was used.  In 1990 I moved to where they had quite a few places with turning targets  and teams.  I shot on local traveling teams for a while.   I bought a pistol box with spotting scope and had a total blast for quite a few years.    Now that my children are grown, I have more time and more money for the sport.   I met a girl that likes to shoot, so  she is next to me every match.  I married her last fall.

As you can see, I have not mentioned scores because I think about how much fun I have had and do have.   I just enjoy the sport.  It is more fun with my wife  (shooting buddy)  She has only been shooting 2 years and is having some of the concerns as the OP.   The first year she got the most improved award.  I told her you can't get that one twice.    Some weeks are better than others, all of them are good.  

I started out like it says above.   
All on the paper. 
All in the scoring rings.
No target pasters needed as in all shots in the repair center.  That was a good day!
All in the black.  This is when I got serious.  Then instead of shooting for the black, I started shooting for the X.

I have enjoyed this sport for 31 years and am excited about tomorrow nights weekly match. I am an OK shot, I am glad to have the guns, ammo and TIME for the sport. 

Enjoy
David
David R
David R

Posts : 408
Join date : 2018-12-10
Age : 61
Location : Hamlin NY

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by Steve K 1/22/2019, 1:04 pm

Frustration is a state of mind. I run the local Bullseye League and we have a lot of fun. We only have about six shooters, but we interact often during the matches, targets are scored but scores are not kept, when someone is having some difficulty everyone there is helpful, it is an easy going bunch. Most of us go to the matches to relax.

Steve K

Posts : 133
Join date : 2015-11-09

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by willnewton 1/22/2019, 4:22 pm

In many cases frustration should simply be acknowledged, not fretted over.

Remember that Bullseye is not easy. When I used to come in last place, I was frustrated. Then I realized that last place in a Bullseye match likely meant I was a better shot than 95% of the folks that ever showed up at the range.

An 8” group at 25 yards is better than the 24” groups at 15 feet most range warriors shoot!

Great posts in this thread, everyone has been where you are from noob to National Champ. Welcome aboard!
willnewton
willnewton
Admin

Posts : 963
Join date : 2016-07-24
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by DA/SA 1/22/2019, 4:55 pm

willnewton wrote:An 8” group at 25 yards is better than the 24” groups at 15 feet most range warriors shoot!

Exactly!
DA/SA
DA/SA

Posts : 957
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 66
Location : Southeast Florida

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by DanQ 1/22/2019, 10:29 pm

Threads like this are why I enjoy this forum, and this sport.  A new shooter asks a question, and many rush to offer insight gained from a whole lot of learning, and a whole lot of shooting.

As most have said this sport is predominantly mental.  There are a couple of books that can offer some help:  "With Winning in Mind" by Lanny Bassham has long been used to improve mental process, goal setting, etc; and "The Inner Game of Tennis" by Timothy Gallwey covers the mental aspects of performance.  I haven't finished the latter, but have read Bassham's book multiple times since shooting with the Marine Corps in the 90s.  

One thing I found useful in progressing skills over the years is to NOT repeatedly shoot the stages of fire as the only means of training.  The USMC Pistol Team training outline take you through a series of drills with progressive goals, designed to develop the skill required to improve the individual stages of fire.  If you follow the guide you will improve your shooting.  The USMC book is on this site.  There is a similar book offered by Distinguished Precision Shooting Sports, but I don't know where my copy is and can't recall the title.

Probably the best source for good help and advice is talking to other competitors when you shoot.  If you see them doing well in a particular stage of fire, ask them what makes the difference for them.  Like you've seen from the advice offered in this thread, many people (if not all) are more than willing to offer perspective.  But bear in mind, if you are at a match, you may catch someone pretty engrossed in their performance and you'd have to wait for a suitable break.  I literally write notes so I can ask later.  Often I talk to the match director where I shoot mostly, who has already posted sage advice in this thread (as usual).

Have fun, and best of success!

DanQ

Posts : 28
Join date : 2016-11-20
Location : Jacksonville, NC

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by bullseye67 1/23/2019, 11:59 am

Good morning,
I don't post very often....that being said, I read every post in Fundementals!!

Frustration is my way of bearing down on myself and re-focusing my efforts. Last Monday nights leauge ISSF match my concentration slipped during slow fire. Usually I shoot 180/200 +/- a point or 2, 168/200 wasn't cool and I got frustrated with myself, then did a breathing excercise wiped away the slow fire and buckled down with timed fire and shot the best timed fire target ever 192/200!! followed up with 178/200 rapid.

During summer months I bring my pistols to the outdoor range, our league shoots indoors year round. I like to set up on the 50M line and shoot for fun. They have some metal swingers several 4 inch and one 8 inch. It reminds me how much fun it is to just "blast away without a care in the world" No scores kept just the "DING DING" of the steel swingers. I was having so much fun one day I didn't notice a small crowd had gathered around to watch. After I was done several came over to yak. They had never seen anyone shoot pistols at 50M let alone one handed!! Apparently, several were keeping track of my hits, they said I didn't miss for the time they were watching. Me, I couldn't have told you my hit/miss ratio...I was having fun Laughing

My point is sometimes we get carried away with scores, training and practice and forget about just "DOING" 

Darren(Bullseye67)

bullseye67

Posts : 21
Join date : 2015-04-26

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by Allgoodhits 1/23/2019, 3:09 pm

Wadcutter wrote:If there exists a more frustrating discipline than bullseye pistol, I'd like to know what it might be.  

A little over a year in and my scores are hovering around the lower end of sharpshooter.

I've noticed a new trend:

My slow fire scores are gradually improving but it seems they are doing so at the cost of my sustained fire scores.

What is up with that?


Identify weakness. Establish a reasonable goal relative to the weakness. Then draft objectives or plan how you expect to reach the goal, then work on the shot process that will take you there. Train to develop, improve and refine the process. The score will take care of itself. Shooting is simple, just not easy.
Allgoodhits
Allgoodhits

Posts : 659
Join date : 2017-09-17
Location : Northern Virginia

Back to top Go down

Frustration Empty Re: Frustration

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum