What does Titegroup really excell at?

Regarding 32 s&w long, 9mm, 38 Spl, and 45.

What is it similar to? Bullseye, or something slower?


Thanks

It's always available.

It is excellent for hardball 230s.

Jack H wrote:It is excellent for hardball 230s.

What's the charge? Thanks

Hardball
4.8 Titegroup, WLP, Sierra
4.9-5.2 N320 works great too. 


4.8 TG, 5.2 N320 Both of these chronographed close to the 820fps of the old match loads

i had a good load for my 9mm. 5 grains of CFE pistol and 115 HAP. The only thing was ES was almost 100 fps. I liked the load, so I tried Titegroup. I loaded 3.6 to 4.2. The 4.0 load had the smallest group and lowest ES. AV was the same as the CFE pistol, 975 for my 4" and 1025 for my 5" 1911. It will shoot under an inch @ 25 yards from my DW PM-9. I load them by the thousand.
I also use 3.0 for my practice 380. I load 1,000 at a time for me and my wife. This gives me 800 fps for a 100 grain plated RN.
I have read on a lead bullet website that they do not recomend Titegroup for powder coated bullets.

David

Titegroup lives up to its name.  It was designed for accuracy.  It's not sensitive to case position, so it works great in large cases like 38 Special.  It burns clean and ignites easily too.  Burn rate is between BE and WST.

Thank you!

4.5 gr titegroup behind a zero 185 JHP is a very good long line load. A bit hot for some, but not bad in my opinion. I find 4.5 with the 230 is an excellent ball load as well. 

I'm now loading 3.7 behind a 170 gr powder coated SWC with good results and a cleaner action than vectan ba10, and no ash like you see with wst.  When my 4lbs is empty, not sure what I'll use...

I have read on a lead bullet website that they do not recomend Titegroup for powder coated bullets.  

David

I load 4 grains of Titegroup under a powder coated Lee 125 grain round nose with no problems. Never heard before that it is not recommended.

Is Titegroup good for the bullets being used for a Model 52 S&W?  
Would it have any advantage / disadvantage over Bullseye?

Hi Mike, I'd stick to Bullseye or switch to WST for .38 special. With Titegroup, the volume of powder is really small in that cartridge. For wadcutters, the TG charge is 2.5 - 2.7 grains: a volume of only 0.21cc. Can you meter that accurately? By comparison, WST comes in at .32cc.

One advantage you could gain with TG over bullseye is cleaner burn, less smoke.

For Bullseye powder, the charge is 2.7 grains, so that and Tightgroup seems to be the same?

I'm using an RCBS Pro 2000 press, with the micrometer screw adjust for powder.  If I set it to 2.7, every so often when I check, it's 2.6, and less frequently 2.8.  This is with Bullseye.  I would be happier if the volume was much greater, which I suspect would make the system more accurate, but truthfully, the only two powders I've used ever, are Bullseye and Unique (long ago).

Curious, if the volume of:
2.7 grains of Tightroup    = 0.21cc   and
2.7 grains of WST =  0.32cc       what would 
2.7 grains of Bullseye =         ??

I'm not very "into" reloading.  I am given something that works (approved both by this forum, and by Terry Labbe from Magnus, for his #514 bullets) and I use that "forever", rarely changing anything.

A while back, I was going to ask here what people thought of Unique for the Model 52, but never got around to asking.

I had to look a while.  This is the only one I could find now.

Powders Generally Not Recommended

• Hodgdon – Titegroup
  
  
• Vihtavuori – N-310
  
  

This came from here
https://precisionbullets.com/2017/11/14/reloading-powders/


David

Not saying I agree.  The thing is it attacks soft plastic like coated base and burns real hot.  
Just passing on what I saw.  there was another caster but I can't find it.

According to the Lee Auto Disc chart the .30 cavity gives 2.8 Bullseye and 3.5 Titegroup.  

Hodgdon has a starting charge of 2.7 grains Titegroup giving 770 fps and pressure under 10000 psi.  I wouldn’t go under that for ballistic uniformity reasons and over that might over drive the M52.  WST is listed as having a range of  2.5 to 2.8 and more normal pressures of 13000 and 16000 respectively.   For 38 Wadcutters there are better options than Titegroup.

I’ve never tried it in an M52, but I did shoot 3.5 Unique in my Python revolver and it shot very well. Ken Waters found that a similar load of Unique was the best load behind a 148 HBWC in a Colt Mid Range 38 (1911) in the article I posted in another thread. So I’d try 3.3 and 3.5 and see. This has listings for all Alliant powders with identified “Target” loads for 38 Special and 45 Auto. http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Hercules_1987.pdf

This is what I use for comparing powder densities.. http://www.rcbs.com/RCBS/media/RCBSMedia/PDFs/Parts/LittleDandyChart.pdf.

I have used TG in my M52 with good results.  2.5-2.8 gr.  As I mentioned before, it's not sensitive to case position.  The pressure and velocities are fairly consistent, in spite of using up little space inside the case.  Being a ball powder, it meters more consistently than the other flake type powders.  

I never could get good results with any coated bullet in the M52.  YMMV.  

Forget about Unique in the 52.  Too slow burning.  Best results are seen with faster burning powders, but nothing slower than 700X, WST or Green Dot which all have similar burn rates.  

2.7 WST is considered "the load" nowadays.

2.7gr of bullseye should occupy a volume of 0.29cc.

You can find the VMD values of various powders from Lee. To find the volume, multiply the charge weight (2.7) by the VMD (0.1064).  http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf

desben wrote:2.7gr of bullseye should occupy a volume of 0.29cc.

You can find the VMD values of various powders from Lee. To find the volume, multiply the charge weight (2.7) by the VMD (0.1064).  http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf

Thank you.  That's my starting point, and that's what I have been using for the past three years or more.

Thinking out loud....    from that chart:

0.1064     Bullseye
0.1413     Red Dot

So, from what I've learned so far, Red Dot should be about half again as "bulky" as Bullseye.
No idea whether or not it would feed nicely with my RCBS micrometer feed.

From https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569414
(see #10, about powders)




Also:


The bullet would be a Magnus #514, and the case would not be recovered brass that I shot at the range.

Mike, search this forum for WST. The vast majority of experts and masters recommend 2.7gr of WST for 38 special wadcutters. There's nothing better. It's easy to meter, it burns cleanly, and most importantly, its the perfect rate and pressure to provide the best accuracy.

Thanks; I keep reading about WST.  Easy enough for me to get one pound:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900249979/winchester-wst-smokeless-gun-powder

Is it equally as good for 45 wadcutters?    
When you say it is "easy to meter", will it be an improvement over Bullseye?  
I can't find the VMD value on the listing posted up above:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf

It works just splendid in 45 as well. As does 700X

Most of the shotgun powders (Red Dot, Green Dot, WST, 700X, etc) have a “VMD” higher than pistol powders. Shotgun recipes have to fill a volume that is fixed. So shotgun powders have a higher VMD because of that. In Pistol it isn’t required, but can be useful in making double charges obvious.

mikemyers wrote:I can't find the VMD value on the listing posted up above:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD.pdf

It's an Hodgdon product, listed as 0.1205 wSUPER-TAR. WST=Winchester Super Target.

Assuming "wSUPR-TAR" means WST in the VMD chart, then:

0.1205     wSUPR-TAR
0.1064     Bullseye

.....meaning the WST powder will be a little "bulkier" then Bullseye, which as I see it is good.   If it meters better than Bullseye, so much the better. 

I can order a pound of it from MidwayUSA when I get home.



'desben', thanks!  I was just guessing before, you posted before I had a chance to.
So much to learn!!!!!!!!!!!!