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Hi Standard Trophy Trigger

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Hi Standard Trophy Trigger  Empty Hi Standard Trophy Trigger

Post by heavyop7 on 1/11/2020, 9:35 pm

My Supermatic Trophy,s trigger has erratic trigger pull weight that changes from about 3.5 lbs to 1.5 lbs. while i am shooting. especially during timed and rapid fire strings. has anyone experienced this? If you did, what is the fix or who is the recommended gunsmith for High Standards.

 Thanks in advance
 Tony

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Post by LenV on 1/11/2020, 10:41 pm

Did the trigger adjustment screw back out? It's located right on the back where the cocked indicator is on a 41.


Last edited by LenV on 1/13/2020, 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Jon Eulette on 1/11/2020, 10:52 pm

Have never heard of a HS doing that before. Make sure the left side cover screw is snug and that trigger bar is properly in place and not dragging. Might want to make sure nothing got caught in the hammer fullcock notch/groove.
Jon
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Post by LenV on 1/11/2020, 11:23 pm

Jon, I am sure you know to never lighten the trigger adjustment screw past flush. I know it now. Bad things can happen if you back it off too far. Nothing that can't be put back together. You can figure out how I learned that. Very Happy
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Post by Jon Eulette on 1/11/2020, 11:40 pm

Len that’s the screw for the sear spring. I see them bent into many configurations, so some you might be ok flush and others no spring pressure at all. So I won’t ask you Wink
Jon
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Post by LenV on 1/11/2020, 11:53 pm

I have a theory of course. The sear spring plunger has a notch that the sear spring adjustment screw recesses into. When under tension the plunger stays in contact with screw and stays in the recess keeping the same length. If the screw is backed off far enough (varies) pressure is removed from the plunger and it can now rotate in relation to the screw. When/if it rotates the slots would line up sometimes and sometimes not. When not aligned the plunger would be longer and increase the trigger pressure until it rotated back into its groove again. It is just a theory but could explain serious changes in trigger pressure.

Len
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Post by Jack H on 1/12/2020, 1:58 am

LenV wrote:Jon, I am sure you know to never lighten the trigger adjustment screw past flush. I know it now. Bad things can happen if you back it off too far. Nothing that can't be put back together. You can figure out how I learned that. Very Happy
Do any of this at your own risk
You need to make sure both spring legs are in the adjustment plunger notch inside the frame.  This is easy to see in a Victor with the slide off.  With a bridge sight, not so easy. 
While looking inside, set the screw to minimum with the spring legs one click off the inside of the frame.
While it is apart, turn the screw way in to see the limit where maximum adjustment happens.  Don't go in too far and bind things up.    Count the clicks from the minimum.  Reset to minimum.
Put it all back together and test the trigger at minimum and at the maximum.   If you like the adjustment range, set it where you like it.

These best left to the experienced.  If you have never done this before, shop it out.
The range can be changed a little by removing the sear spring and stretching it wider or narrower. 
Make sure the sear is free to move on the sear pin, and the pin is seated fully in the frame. 
Make sure the trigger bar and trigger are free to move their whole range against the V spring pressure.  Make sure the front tab on the safety piece does not rub the trigger bar in front of the disconnect hump as the trigger is pulled.  Make sure the trigger bar notch does not slip on the sear arm when pulled.  (Notch work usually means replacement.  Same with sear-hammer surfaces, replace if damaged.  A few careful smoothing strokes on a hard stone is all I ever do the the sear nose.  Anything more is risking losing the sear-hammer surfaces being square to each other)  Make sure with the slide on, that the disconnect actually disconnects.
The machining in the trigger bar recess in the frame is rough.  Knock down some of the high points in the recess to make a bunch of smoothe points for the trigger bar to move across.  Lube.
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Post by CR10X on 1/12/2020, 7:02 am

You need to make sure both spring legs are in the adjustment plunger notch inside the frame.

+1

This is usually the problem associated with the changing trigger pull you described.  When one of the legs is not seated properly the trigger pull becomes weird. Some sear springs have a little capture spring that keeps them from spreading too far apart.  If you can see it and yours does not, try to find  a replacement that does.  It will help prevent future problems.  

And yes, if it is the problem, sometimes with a Victor, you can get them reset from the top with a lot of patience.  Otherwise, unless you have 3 or 4 hands, the high standard hammer tool and a lot of patience and really want to learn how to disassemble a High Standard; I'd farm it out to a smith. 

https://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/p_430000530_1.jpg


https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4417-reassembly-of-high-standard-victor-hammer

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Post by heavyop7 on 1/12/2020, 9:34 am

LenV wrote:Did the trigger adjustment screw fall out? It's located right on the back where the cocked indicator is on a 41.
It,s still in and didnt adjust it Len.

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Post by heavyop7 on 1/12/2020, 10:01 am

Jon Eulette wrote:Have never heard of a HS doing that before. Make sure the left side cover screw is snug and that trigger bar is properly in place and not dragging. Might want to make sure nothing got caught in the hammer fullcock notch/groove.
Jon
Jon, side cover is snug, nothing in the notch/groove. Trigger bar appears to move freely.I don't want to take apart after hearing the difficulties. 

I should say I had this problem a year ago and while at Canton, Ohio Matches I had the armorer look at it and told him what it was doing. I also had a Wolff service pack of springs and had him replace all springs. The pistol worked great until last weeks match. During timed fire it felt like trigger would not move then it went click then did not fire. Then I thoroughly cleaned pistol and now I just get erratic trigger pull weight. The armorer did ask if it has been fired alot......of course. He said something about worn part? 

I appreciate your help
Tony

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Post by heavyop7 on 1/12/2020, 10:04 am

CR10X wrote:
You need to make sure both spring legs are in the adjustment plunger notch inside the frame.

+1

This is usually the problem associated with the changing trigger pull you described.  When one of the legs is not seated properly the trigger pull becomes weird. Some sear springs have a little capture spring that keeps them from spreading too far apart.  If you can see it and yours does not, try to find  a replacement that does.  It will help prevent future problems.  

And yes, if it is the problem, sometimes with a Victor, you can get them reset from the top with a lot of patience.  Otherwise, unless you have 3 or 4 hands, the high standard hammer tool and a lot of patience and really want to learn how to disassemble a High Standard; I'd farm it out to a smith. 

https://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/p_430000530_1.jpg


https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4417-reassembly-of-high-standard-victor-hammer
I have the bridge mount and its difficult to see.....is there certain procedure to adjust sear?
Tanks, Tony

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Post by Jack H on 1/12/2020, 2:41 pm

An additional concern is the sear pin hole on the left side of the frame.  If oversize or worn egg shape, part of the trigger pull will be to flex the pin left end forward.  Tolerable to a degree, but if too much, a close set trigger stop will stop too soon.  And the trigger will feel rubbery.  If real bad the way the sear nose slips off the hammer will not be even across the hammer width.

Some HS sears had a hole for lubing the sear pin to keep the sear from seizing on the pin.
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Post by heavyop7 on 1/12/2020, 4:51 pm

Jack H wrote:An additional concern is the sear pin hole on the left side of the frame.  If oversize or worn egg shape, part of the trigger pull will be to flex the pin left end forward.  Tolerable to a degree, but if too much, a close set trigger stop will stop too soon.  And the trigger will feel rubbery.  If real bad the way the sear nose slips off the hammer will not be even across the hammer width.

Some HS sears had a hole for lubing the sear pin to keep the sear from seizing on the pin.
Sounds very logical, just checked sear pin hole. It appears to be round not egg shaped. I removed the trigger stop from the trigger so that's not it.

What I did discover today was if I put trigger scale on trigger at a right outward angle it registers a more heavy trigger weight. Its almost seems there is too much play somewhere?? This is very frustrating.

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Post by atrfod on 1/12/2020, 10:22 pm

heavyop7 wrote:
Jack H wrote:An additional concern is the sear pin hole on the left side of the frame.  If oversize or worn egg shape, part of the trigger pull will be to flex the pin left end forward.  Tolerable to a degree, but if too much, a close set trigger stop will stop too soon.  And the trigger will feel rubbery.  If real bad the way the sear nose slips off the hammer will not be even across the hammer width.

Some HS sears had a hole for lubing the sear pin to keep the sear from seizing on the pin.
Sounds very logical, just checked sear pin hole. It appears to be round not egg shaped. I removed the trigger stop from the trigger so that's not it.

What I did discover today was if I put trigger scale on trigger at a right outward angle it registers a more heavy trigger weight. Its almost seems there is too much play somewhere?? This is very frustrating.

Maybe the pin holes in the trigger itself are worn or possibly cracked through?It might be worth pulling the trigger out and having a look.-Mike

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Post by heavyop7 on 1/13/2020, 9:56 pm

atrfod wrote:
heavyop7 wrote:
Jack H wrote:An additional concern is the sear pin hole on the left side of the frame.  If oversize or worn egg shape, part of the trigger pull will be to flex the pin left end forward.  Tolerable to a degree, but if too much, a close set trigger stop will stop too soon.  And the trigger will feel rubbery.  If real bad the way the sear nose slips off the hammer will not be even across the hammer width.

Some HS sears had a hole for lubing the sear pin to keep the sear from seizing on the pin.
Sounds very logical, just checked sear pin hole. It appears to be round not egg shaped. I removed the trigger stop from the trigger so that's not it.

What I did discover today was if I put trigger scale on trigger at a right outward angle it registers a more heavy trigger weight. Its almost seems there is too much play somewhere?? This is very frustrating.

Maybe the pin holes in the trigger itself are worn or possibly cracked through?It might be worth pulling the trigger out and having a look.-Mike
yes I,m afraid it might be sear pin holes also!!! I am going to look.  Thanks

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