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Rice crispies going off in my elbow

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Post by Jack H on 7/19/2020, 3:06 pm

That's what it felt like as I tore my bicep tendon just under two weeks ago.  You know I have not been shooting much lately, but now it will be not at all for who knows how long.
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Post by -TT- on 7/19/2020, 7:12 pm

Get thee to your doctor and soon. The biceps tendons connect to muscles that anchor in the elbow, the snap crackle pop is related.

I tore the heck out of my right shoulder last fall and switched to lefty, with really interesting results. Dropped 10% but am learning a lot, hoping to switch back soon.

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Post by mikemyers on 7/19/2020, 8:06 pm

How did you guys do that damage?  Shooting?  
Jack H, I agree with -TT-, the sooner you see a doctor, the better.

Sorry to hear this - my brother damaged his rotator cup, and is finally starting to improve, after a second surgery.
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Post by -TT- on 7/20/2020, 9:53 am

mikemyers wrote:How did you guys do that damage?  Shooting?

Mike, in my case injury from a backwards fall. "Massive" tear (that's actually a medical term) separating the supraspinatus and infraspinatus, and dislocating one leg of the biceps tendon. 10 months post-surgery I can raise the pistol but cannot yet sustain a stable hold. It's really, really close to it though! My backup arm is keeping me in the game in the meantime, mostly.

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Post by Jack H on 7/20/2020, 10:11 am

Already seen the doc.  Need to go back in a few more days.  Tendon area is still swollen below the elbow.

I had rt shoulder surgery several years ago.  That doc did cuff and cartilage repair and scraped spurs and arthritis.  Many years of pitching and tennis in my past.  Now the elbow thing is from a surprising but stupid lift attempt.
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Post by mikemyers on 7/20/2020, 3:38 pm

Regarding injuries like this, and shooting, maybe we should all learn to shoot one handed with our "other" hand.  

I tried, dry-firing.  I'm as bad one handed with my left arm/hand/shoulder as I used to be with my right.
I guess it would be good to take a light gun, maybe my old High Standard, and start practicing.

I might really stink at it, but no reason not to try.  I used to really stink at it with my right hand - first time I shot a High Standard one handed, half the shots weren't even on the target paper.

Back to you guys, I assume you'll both get scheduled for surgery, then Physical Therapy.  I was told there are two types of surgery, the old fashioned way, or a new way where the doctor goes in with tiny little tools, and fixes things from the inside.  That's easier, and the healing time is shorter.
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Post by -TT- on 7/20/2020, 7:36 pm

I had surgery last October, and 10 months later I am still doing PT now down to every other week, with daily exercises. The surgeon made 5 small incisions and he worked through the openings. I have lovely color photos of various areas inside the shoulder.

Due to the level of damage and repair, the surgeon told me to expect a year's recovery, and to get back to about 80% of where I was. So far, he's quite right. The physical therapist says it's taking a long time but I am not plateauing, and am doing very well.

I have a great deal more respect for the shoulder now. It is less like a joint and more like a system of cables, girders and levers. Raising to an aiming stance is remarkably different if done forward, sideways, or at a 30-degree "scaption" angle. That last one is my primary goal.

Try it with your other hand. You'll find your better-trained first hand will talk to it, while you watch your mistakes all over again. It can teach you a lot. For me, the hardest lesson is teaching my left-hand trigger finger how to pull straight, and in harmony with the wobble. It still insists on launching 2 out of 10 shots somewhere I don't expect. Right on call, maddeningly. Just haven't mastered it yet. But as I said, within 10% of my prior average. Satisfying, in a way.

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Post by mikemyers on 7/20/2020, 9:36 pm

-TT-    ......interesting way of describing how your shoulder "works".  I know a lot more about it now from my brother, who had surgeries done twice.  I try to understand what he tells me, but honestly, I never really thought much about my shoulders before - how they work, and all that  sort of stuff.  Pretty incredible.

Even if you get back 80% of your shoulder, the parts you need for shooting already seem to be happening.  

Rather than saying anything about what your other hand is like, I'll set up one of my guns for left hand shooting, and see how far I get.  15 yards, and the biggest target I can find.  Maybe by 2030 I'll catch up with where you are now.   :-)

One good thing - my left hand won't have any bad habits I need to break!   :-)     (Did you ever watch the part of the movie Ender's Game about learning how to shoot?)

One more question - does your Physical Therapist give you "generic" things to do, or exercise also specifically to help you build up your shooting arm?
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Post by -TT- on 7/21/2020, 7:30 am

mikemyers wrote:One more question - does your Physical Therapist give you "generic" things to do, or exercise also specifically to help you build up your shooting arm?

She gives me a new exercise each time I progress. There are dozens so yeah they're generic, but finely tuned by choice. Right now my newest one is manipulating a "mini Swiss Ball", basically a soft round weight, by pressing it to the wall and rolling it in small controlled circles. There are two exercises, one is straight-ahead and the other "in scaption" at 30 degrees. That latter one is the killer, because it works the supraspinatus - my recovering one. Honestly, it's a perfect fine-motor aiming exercise.

She's well aware of my sporting goal and challenges, but isn't explicitly working on shooting. And because the shoulder requires at least five muscles to work together, many of the drills go all around, like prone arm lifts, rowing, etc. It's all done with small hand weights and elastic tubing.

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Post by jwax on 7/21/2020, 8:36 pm

Maybe this should be under "Fundamentals", but training to shoot with either hand is not only good training, but actually fun to do!
Rotator cuff surgery on the right shoulder in 2009 put me in training left handed.

Like Mike mentioned, you'll be a true newbie at first, but your brain already knows what to do. All that's left (pun!) is to get some left sided muscle memory to copy the right side.

Good news is the left handed learning curve is much faster than the right-handed attempt was.

When you're done with that, try one footed shooting- one foot braced against the knee of the other leg. Another thread. Smile

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Post by mikemyers on 7/21/2020, 10:52 pm

jwax wrote:.........When you're done with that, try one footed shooting- one foot braced against the knee of the other leg........
Gee, I'm getting physical therapy to try to build up my balance and strength, and on Monday the therapist wanted me to stand on one foot, right, then left.  Forget about shooting, I couldn't even stand for very long!!!   And then the therapist wanted me to stand on a "balance board" that rocks forwards and back.  I tried, but it must have looked pathetic!  I'm sure Jim would have an interesting comment.....      :-)   I'll post the photo, so you can all have a good laugh!

Rice crispies going off in my elbow Img_8712
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Post by -TT- on 7/22/2020, 5:58 am

Oh you are in for weeks of fun. Been there, done those too. Wait'll they make you balance on the Bosu Ball. Half-ball, actually, sometimes upside-down.

Hey that might be an interesting way to shoot/train. Even better than one-footed.

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Post by -TT- on 7/22/2020, 6:10 am

mikemyers wrote:Rather than saying anything about what your other hand is like, I'll set up one of my guns for left hand shooting, and see how far I get.  15 yards, and the biggest target I can find.  Maybe by 2030 I'll catch up with where you are now.   :-)

I went so far as to buy an LH 7-degree grip for my AW93, mainly because I knew it would be a while and because the AW93 is lighter than my Benelli, or at least can be set up to be less front-heavy. The 7-degree rotation basically is the angle between your two eyes to the rear sight, so it allows a natural stance using your usual dominant eye. At that point it's just a muscle-memory learning exercise for your newly-challenged klutzy other side. Same brain, same eye, same techniques to success.

With a 1911, just swap hands, but maybe work on your hold like a modified Zins grip, to accomplish the same eye perspective.

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Post by mikemyers on 7/22/2020, 6:34 am

So, when you shot with your left hand, rather than your right, to allow you to use your dominant eye, you rotated your gun 7 degrees?  I assume your body was already hanged so you had your left foot forward, opposite of what you usually do.  As to 1911, I remember just struggling to hold it up in my right hand - for my left, that's too much weight to start off with.

Bosu Ball????  Which of your legs is "stronger"?  If on one foot, how would you react to recoil?  .....sounds impossible, but what do I know.
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Post by -TT- on 7/22/2020, 6:58 am

Mike, Mike, Miiike, this thread is about working around a bad arm. If you want to talk about legs, ankles, toes and proprioception, we need a new one Smile

My gun does not rotate in my left hand nor do I break my left wrist, the grip accomplishes that. My stance is reversed, left leg forward. Yes, my left arm needed some training/strength building. My left leg has the strength issue. Recoil on a Bosu Ball would be a challenge - that's the point.

I do have tons of theories on balance and feedback from the shooting stance!

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Post by mikemyers on 7/22/2020, 12:22 pm

OK, agreed.....      I guess I got carried away from what I was reading.  Back to working around a bad arm.

No need to start a new thread.  I just got curious from what I was reading here.  I'll try for more self control.
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Post by -TT- on 7/22/2020, 8:10 pm

Shot tonight in our Wednesday summer league, right handed but I still need some support to hold a proper aim. However, just slight help from my left hand under my right elbow gave me a decent 257. Sustained is still a challenge. Workin my way back!

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