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CMP vs NRA sanctioning

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Post by dapduh2 8/7/2020, 10:27 am

After all the grumbling and complaints with the NRA, just curious why so many match directors chose to keep their matches sanctioned with the NRA vs CMP. I’d prefer to support the CMP but not many local matches to be found. 

I’ve also been told that CMP is a flat rate fee and the club ends up paying less and keeping more. In addition, the CMP sends an email with results and lists all upcoming matches on their website. 

This post isn’t a bash the NRA post, I just think the CMP stepped up for us and was curious why they aren’t getting much support.
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Post by chopper 8/7/2020, 10:59 am

I don't know why either. I got a feeling it's tradition and NRA has always been the go to. Maybe it's time to change and try CMP out also, kinda see if they are more efficient and timely.
 The NRA does have clout as far as 2nd Amendment, but I'm thinking they could be top heavy in management and executives. I never understood why big organizations have so many executives, to me it's added expense to their operation. Why not call them managers instead of executive managers and pay them less with less perks.
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Post by james r chapman 8/7/2020, 11:08 am

The matches I’ve participated in this have been mostly CMP.
They were willing to sanction when the NRA was not.

The CMP is timely in their recording of results and is now duplicating everything the NRA has done.
I think the NRA have bigger things to worry about in this day.
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Post by dapduh2 8/7/2020, 11:20 am

james r chapman wrote:The matches I’ve participated in this have been mostly CMP.
They were willing to sanction when the NRA was not.

The CMP is timely in their recording of results and is now duplicating everything the NRA has done.
I think the NRA have bigger things to worry about in this day.
I agree. The CMP matches I’ve done were great. I never understood why the NRA didn’t have a list of all sanctioned matches. The CMP does and if I’m traveling through an area I can look up a local match.
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Post by Danehogle 8/7/2020, 11:47 am

It will take time but I have sent out an email to all the match directors in the state to explain the differences and the perks.  
I have also made half of the state matches CMP.
Nobody likes being first..... so time to step up!
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Post by TonyH 8/7/2020, 12:23 pm

I would switch the 20 week indoor 22 league we shoot each winter from NRA sanctioned to CMP in a heartbeat if they came up with a flat tabular fee like the NRA has based on the number of participants.....as it stands today I think their fee structure only supports individual matches.
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Post by james r chapman 8/18/2020, 6:04 pm

https://thecmp.org/cmp-rules-committee-approves-additional-eic-competitions-for-non-national-matches-years/
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Post by astroturf3040 9/7/2020, 2:49 pm

I called CMP about league sanctioning. She said the board has this topic under review now.

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Post by TonyH 9/7/2020, 3:18 pm

astroturf3040 wrote:I called CMP about league sanctioning. She said the board has this topic under review now.
I had communicated the need to Christina Roguski at the CMP about a good month ago and she had told me that she would bring it up to the Board for discussion and approval. Glad to see that it’s moving along.
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Post by chiz1180 9/16/2020, 12:56 pm

Some additional musings to the topic. Ohio State outdoor was a NRA 2700 with EIC's. The CMP posted results within two weeks (and sent out EIC medals), it took the NRA five weeks.

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Post by james r chapman 9/16/2020, 1:54 pm

Well in their defense, EIC paperwork is not 2700 paperwork..
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Post by dapduh2 9/16/2020, 3:25 pm

james r chapman wrote:Well in their defense, EIC paperwork is not 2700 paperwork..
I’ve shot cmp 2700’s and gotten results emailed from cmp a little more than a week later
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Post by Ed Hall 9/16/2020, 4:07 pm

I've posted this somewhere, but it isn't in this thread and may only apply to New York State:

The NYS Law specifically allows non-residents to bring handguns into the state for NRA and IHSMA sanctioned competition only.  If a venue in NY only sanctions with CMP, technically, non-residents would not be allowed to legally compete.

Be careful if you intend to drop NRA sanctioning in New York.  I don't know if any other jurisdictions may have similar wording in their laws.

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Post by james r chapman 9/16/2020, 6:09 pm

dapduh2 wrote:
james r chapman wrote:Well in their defense, EIC paperwork is not 2700 paperwork..
I’ve shot cmp 2700’s and gotten results emailed from cmp a little more than a week later

Never have from CMP

Got them from match director in a timely manner though
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Post by chiz1180 9/17/2020, 6:50 am

james r chapman wrote:Well in their defense, EIC paperwork is not 2700 paperwork..

The number of matches going on this year is also considerably less than normal as well. However regardless of the sanctioning organization it is data entry and reporting. The CMP reports more data than the NRA (e.g. individual match totals for match pistol events, and individual shot values for EIC's). The only data I am able to find from the NRA are match aggregates.

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Post by mpolans 9/17/2020, 8:00 am

I think it'd be funny if our bullseye league, which normally shoots weekly at the range in NRA HQ, switched to CMP sanctioning.

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Post by jglenn21 9/17/2020, 1:28 pm

Already seen one club we shoot at shift to the CMP for their matches. Going to be interesting
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Post by Rotwang 9/17/2020, 3:33 pm

That's the only data that the nra gets from the match director.  Results are traditionally sent out from each match.  And anyone using the tournament software shows the detail results for each competitor in classification groupings.

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Post by Slartybartfast 9/17/2020, 3:42 pm

Ed Hall wrote:I've posted this somewhere, but it isn't in this thread and may only apply to New York State:

The NYS Law specifically allows non-residents to bring handguns into the state for NRA and IHSMA sanctioned competition only.  If a venue in NY only sanctions with CMP, technically, non-residents would not be allowed to legally compete.

Be careful if you intend to drop NRA sanctioning in New York.  I don't know if any other jurisdictions may have similar wording in their laws.
Quite frankly, this is what gives me the heebie-jeebies crossing the border into the USA with all my handguns.
Here, whether you agree with the regulations or not, there is one federal law that is over-seen by provincial CFOs. So when you want to go to another province, you need to apply for a transportation permit (ATT). But that permit is granted by your province's CFO in the name of the RCMP.
No Byzantine provincial laws to catch you up.

The US CBP officials have always been very professional. Even apologetic about longish waits inside before being served or the long time it takes to enter permit and serial numbers into their system. Guy at the booth actually seemed disappointed he couldn't see my CZ97.

But the ATF permit says nothing about competition or who sanctions it. And the USA feds let me in based on USA federal law. And the post above just reminds me that every time I cross I could possible run afoul of state, county, or local laws that I know nothing about.

The Canadian CBSA officers at the booth have been friendly to annoyed that they can't just wave me through. The officers that have inspected my firearms have been professional, almost always interested in what I was shooting, even going so far as to being a bit giddy getting to see all the handguns I brought with me.

But Canadian law has ancient bits in it too. Competition sanctioning seems to be defined as the predecessor to the ISSF. Not the multitude of sanctioning bodies that currently exist for IDPA, IPSC, PPC, etc.

Does the NRA sanction IDPA and IPSC matches? Seems USIDPA sanctionned matches have the same issues as CMP sanctionned matches (for international and cross state competitors).
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Post by Ed Hall 9/17/2020, 4:06 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:. . .
Does the NRA sanction IDPA and IPSC matches? Seems USIDPA sanctionned matches have the same issues as CMP sanctionned matches (for international and cross state competitors).
Yes.  Some of the IDPA and other type matches are sanctioned by NRA under "other" for tournament type, but it is the responsibility of the sponsoring organization for the event to seek that sanctioning.  I don't know the details for fees, but would expect the NRA to still charge competitor fees for any tournaments it sanctions, whether it's Precision Pistol, IDPA, etc.

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Post by mikemyers 5/8/2021, 10:36 am

I copied this from an email someone sent me, about the Charlotte Rifle & Pistol 2021 CMP Match Program:

Hello Shooters,
In preparation for our 2021 matches, I have attached CR-PC’s Precision Pistol Match Program.  You will notice some changes as we are moving away from the NRA to the CMP’s 2700 Sanctioned Program.  We have heard many positive comments about this new offering from the CMP and hope you will embrace our change.  It is almost identical to the NRA 2700 that we have conducted for years.  


Some of the changes you will notice are new score cards provided by the CMP.  The CMP provides color-coded scorecards for each 900 aggregate.  Following each match, competitor’s scorecards will be sent to the CMP, where scores are maintained.  Every competitor will be able to visit the CMP website for current and past match results.  After a couple matches, competitors will receive their CMP Classification and ID cards.


This year’s matches will fall on the 2nd Saturday of each month, March through November, except July.  The only exception is our April match that will be held on Sunday, 4/11.  Registration starts at 8:00AM and matches begin at 9:00AM as in previous years.
  
Come out and join us on 3/13 for our first match of the season.




I'm wondering if local clubs, such as the Hollywood Rifle and Pistol Club in Ft. Lauderdale, can become involved, and if they did so, would match scores be used to get "classified"?  With all the negative things I read about the NRA, maybe the CMP is a better way to go.  If it's possible, I'll talk to the people in charge of my club.  


They no longer shoot a full 2700.  Instead, they shoot a "900", one gun.  Apparently there weren't enough shooters here to continue with the 2700.  As for me, I don't drive to other matches, and I'll never get "classified" even if I shoot the "900" fairly well.




https://thecmp.org/competitions/matches/cmp-national-matches/
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Post by msmith44 7/11/2021, 1:06 pm

mikemyers wrote:
I'm wondering if local clubs, such as the Hollywood Rifle and Pistol Club in Ft. Lauderdale, can become involved, and if they did so, would match scores be used to get "classified"?  With all the negative things I read about the NRA, maybe the CMP is a better way to go.  If it's possible, I'll talk to the people in charge of my club.  


They no longer shoot a full 2700.  Instead, they shoot a "900", one gun.  Apparently there weren't enough shooters here to continue with the 2700.  As for me, I don't drive to other matches, and I'll never get "classified" even if I shoot the "900" fairly well.




https://thecmp.org/competitions/matches/cmp-national-matches/
CMP rules do not allow two-handed shooting. See CMP Rule 5.1 on page 44.

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