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38 Special cast wadcutter with less smoke?

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38 Special cast wadcutter with less smoke? Empty 38 Special cast wadcutter with less smoke?

Post by bruce martindale 11/8/2020, 5:02 pm

I am using old school nra 50-50 lube.

In cast 45 loads, l don't get a lot of smoke but in 38s I do.

3.0 BE, 2.9 wst, 2.4 700x all smoke.

Change lube? But 45 is clean, h&g50 38 smokes

I have 45-45-10, or LLA.

Hotter powder like titegroup? Bigger volume of slower powder? Anyone know?

Would like a clean quiet indoor load. Thanks

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Post by james r chapman 11/8/2020, 5:29 pm

Less powder.
2.5 BE, 2.7 or less WST
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Post by fc60 11/8/2020, 6:30 pm

Greetings,

If not done already, try lubing only the bottom groove only.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by bruce martindale 11/9/2020, 7:28 am

So is it a pressure issue, a friction issue, or something else?

Will try the above but the 700x load is already very light; 630 fps with poor combustion?

Will try tubmle lube after sizing next

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Post by mikld 11/9/2020, 11:22 am

I believe it's a heat "problem". Heat from powder plus heat from friction raise lube temps enough for it to smoke excessively. I often drop a small chunk of lube in my casting pot and get quite a bit of smoke. But I haven't compared my C-Red to Speed Green or any commercial or home made lubes to see which is the smokiest. Alox is considered "smoky" by some, but I don't notice any excess smoke with my 45-45-10. My observations may be worthless because for many years of shooting indoors smoke was no problem for me (98% of my handloads were cast and in my 38s I used NRA lube and my 44 Magnums used C-Red with powders ranging from Bullseye to WC820) and now I shoot out doors; "what smoke?"...

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Post by bruce martindale 11/9/2020, 6:19 pm

Well here's the answer: It's simply friction from a long 38 cal bearing surface.

Made the same loads today but with sized, tumble lubed 38 cast wadcutters. No smoke but TOO slippery: didn't cycle, no pressure, and low velocity.

If you ever doubted 45-45-10, don't. It works!
Then l remembered soft bullets also take more powder to get the same velocity as harder ones.


Last edited by bruce martindale on 11/12/2020, 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by 10sandxs 11/10/2020, 12:37 am

Hi tek... or powder coat... cuts smoke in everything 75+%

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Post by David R 11/10/2020, 7:27 am

^^^^^^  What he said.

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Post by jjfitch 11/12/2020, 9:17 am

Dry lube and WST!

Smiles,
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Post by Slamfire 11/20/2020, 8:56 pm

Anyone tried the powder coating?  Do they smoke, and do they shoot?

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Post by 10sandxs 11/20/2020, 9:03 pm

Slamfire wrote:Anyone tried the powder coating?  Do they smoke, and do they shoot?

In my experience they shoot as good, ot better than lubed bullets. Fit is more important. You can probably get a sample pack from brazos. They use hitek, but I've seen no difference between the two coatings. Only ease of application

Smoke is night and day difference between lubed and coated...

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Post by noylj 11/21/2020, 4:29 am

Only lube bottom lube groove.
Use 45/45/10 tumble lube, wax emulsion tumble lube, or powder coat.

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Post by David R 11/21/2020, 6:59 am

Its the lube that makes the smoke.  

Go to powder coated and you will not have a problem.  

Accuracy is as good or better than conventionally lubed.  

38 Special cast wadcutter with less smoke? 18010


25 yards Brazos coated 180 SWC.

Powder coating also helps reduce lead poison.    Not a problem for everyone, but is for me.

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Post by bruce martindale 11/21/2020, 7:45 am

Powder coat or tumble lube coat the whole bullet, with a long bearing surface, it matters. 
Lube in these grooves doesn't do enough.

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Post by Slamfire 11/28/2020, 4:16 pm

10sandxs wrote:
Slamfire wrote:Anyone tried the powder coating?  Do they smoke, and do they shoot?

In my experience they shoot as good, ot better than lubed bullets. Fit is more important.  You can probably get a sample pack from brazos. They use hitek, but I've seen no difference between the two coatings. Only ease of application

Smoke is night and day difference between lubed and coated...

I appreciate the two posters stating they have not seen a decrease in accuracy with powder coated bullets.  That may encourage me to try them.

My Doctor checks my lead levels at my insistence, and the amount of lead in my blood goes up once shooting season starts.  I think Bullseye Pistol is the greatest contributor as pistols blow one heck of a lot of elemental lead out in front of the shooter. And I of course, am an air breathing creature, and that stuff goes directly into the lungs, and then into the blood.

I am very hopeful that lead free primers arrive in quantity soon, and I am using plated bullets during timed and rapid fire in an attempt to reduce the lead out of my pistols. But, given that everyone else around is blowing lead out the tube, both from primers, and cast bullets, I am probably baying at the moon, in terms of reducing the lead in the air around me.

I have tried bring a fan to blow back to front, but sometimes the shooters around me complain about it, for various reasons, and I have to turn it off.  And then, sometimes the wind blows front to back, and a little fan is unable to compete with Mother Nature.

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Post by jwax 11/28/2020, 8:01 pm

OP was about smoke, not lead, but I agree Slamfire.
Blood levels go up with indoor shooting, and down when summer arrives. Proper care/cleaning is essential to keep the lead out of your system. Be surgeon clean!
Doff your shooting clothes after shooting, keep gun cleaning way away from food/kitchen, etc. Wash hands at the range before getting in your car.
Sorry to hijack your thread Bruce!
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Post by pergoman 11/28/2020, 10:37 pm

I stopped all indoor shooting except 22's in our league when my lead levels hit 23! I then began powder coating all of my bullets for all disciplines, indoors and out. My lead levels are down to 16 and steady for the last year which is encouraging. I no longer blow out gobs of black gunk after a centerfire practice indoor session, thanks to the powder coating and no more lube of any kind. It took a bit of load tweaking to duplicate or better the group sizes but I can't imagine I will ever return to lubes. Smoke, smell and soot are a thing of the past for me.

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Post by bruce martindale 11/29/2020, 7:45 pm

Anytime John, spread the word...

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