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Smith & Wesson Model 41 recoil spring for shooting higher velocity ammunition

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Brent375hh
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Smith & Wesson Model 41 recoil spring for shooting higher velocity ammunition Empty Smith & Wesson Model 41 recoil spring for shooting higher velocity ammunition

Post by dlevasse 2/3/2021, 3:57 pm

So here is what I am thinking. With the shortage of CCI standard velocity I am think about changing my 7 lb recoil spring to a 14lb spring and trying some 1850fps rounds.
My thinking is 7lbs spring for 1070fps should equal 13.96lb spring for 1850fps. I am hoping some one smarter than me has though through this.

dlevasse

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Post by sharkdoctor 2/3/2021, 4:17 pm

Welcome to the forum!

Couple of thoughts.  1850 fps seems really fast.  Recall velocity in pistols is much lower than for rifles, velocities for which are usually published.  Pistol velocities, not so much.  If I recall correctly, The 41 has a stnd spring of 7.5 lbs. Also, a heavier spring will send the slide forward more forcibly, and tend to pound the barrel.  I am not sure how you did your calculation- momentum is mass x velocity if that is where you are going.  My 41, using even a 6lb spring, has visible barrel peening albeit after many 10k's of rounds, so some damage might occur.

You could try it, I don't recommend it, but work up to some heavier spring weight.  Many pistolsmiths here likely will give you a better answer.

Good luck, and this ammo shortage too, shall pass!

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Post by dlevasse 2/3/2021, 4:58 pm

Sharkdoctor thank you for your reply. your right i haven't though this out, I need a heaver slide, some mass to absorb the recoil. This idea is starting to look like a shot out side the score rings. Maybe some kind of recoil buffer. I don't want to damage my gun. I tell people my 41 makes me feel like i am holding my wife's hand, its soft and smooth and makes me feel good inside.

dlevasse

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Post by sharkdoctor 2/3/2021, 5:01 pm

Another thought.  Consider the value of a 41.  If you must shoot hi vel, buy a Ruger, beat the snot out of it, get better, and shoot the 41 with the match ammo for which it was intended!

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Post by rburk 2/3/2021, 11:35 pm

That is what I did, I bought a Ruger MK III and put a volquartsen trigger in it, added a red dot sight.  It is my 22 practice gun, shoot all of my HV ammo in it.  It actually likes CCI HV, groups pretty well.  

Saving my standard velocity ammo for matches, and my model 41.

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Post by Wobbley 2/4/2021, 12:09 am

Buy a new recoil spring from Gunsprings.com with a load rating one step above factory. Add a buffer. https://1022racerifle.com/buffer-technologies-smith-wesson-41-recoil-buffer-2-pack/

The spring keeps the slide velocity down and the buffer aebsorbs the excess energy. Is it as good as SV? Probably not. Reliability will likely be worse but it can get you by for training. yMMV.
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Post by Outthere 2/4/2021, 8:01 am

I agree with buying a Ruger to use HV ammo.
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Post by dlevasse 2/4/2021, 8:22 am

This forum is a really good place to bounce ideas. I really appreciate the feed back, now I know why when I walk by a Ruger it seems to be calling out buy me.

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Post by Guest 2/4/2021, 3:29 pm

You could also beat up on a S&W Victory, they are cheap and very accurate little guns, once you tune your extractor with a screwdriver, your all set, also it's not as funky to disassemble and reassemble. The reason the heavier recoil spring is not a good idea, your taking extra recoil energy from the high velocity load, so the slide will be hitting the breach face of your barrel nearly twice as hard. The end of the slide and barrel will deform, I  have seen swell marks on the side of the barrel, and the side and top side of the slide, which had to be filed off. Good luck with the hunt.

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Post by Brent375hh 2/5/2021, 9:23 am

I shot a 41 every week with CCI MiniMags for seven years at a .22 bowling pin league before I knew any better. Neither my frame or slide have any indication of peening or cracking where the two meet. I am pretty certain that the MiniMags were not doing 1850fps though.

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Post by dlevasse 2/5/2021, 10:29 am

 I sure like this forum. when Smithfan4152 suggested a Smith & Wesson Vectory my lights came on (i little on the dim side but on). I own one, after digging out the box it came in I found a picatinny rail so I am good to go for now. very thank full for all the responses.



In my original post i was looking at the Higher velocity rounds as a certain percentage stronger that the standard velocity think I could just make the recoil spring the same percentage stronger, I did not thinks though what happens when the slide returns.


Brent375hh: if you shot a 100 rounds every week X 52 weeks X 7 years 36,400 rounds and you did not see any premature wear that is very impressive.

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Post by Brent375hh 2/5/2021, 10:44 am

I doubt is was 100 rounds a week. The idea is to shoot 5 pins with 5 rounds. Sometimes it takes 6 or 7. Probably 7-10 runs a night. I would say 10K rounds would be a better number.

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Post by C7@71 2/5/2021, 9:06 pm

I’m a novice, but I also talk to expertS.  I have a 79 M41.  It has had a few new parts and a premier Douglas barrel and also a few mods.  I wanted a spare recoil spring.  I used a Lyman trigger gauge and determined it had a 6# spring.  Talked to Dave Salyer and he recommended that I stay with that as that was what he used for his builds or mods.  I have only shot 1070 in it and it functions flawlessly.

If you do the ratios, an 1850 velocity would require a 10.4 pound spring.  Wolff makes an 8 pound spring.  Now is that too light?  I don’t know.  

Practically, what brand of ammo are you going to use that is rated at 1850?  The CCI Minimag is 1250 and the even cheaper, and is easier to find....even in today’s market, the Remington Golden Bullet HP is only slightly above 1200.  

Next up, where will you find a 14 pound spring for the M41.  I never saw one....but again, not an expert,

SO....consider this.  According to Dave Salyer, you are using too heavy a spring...or at least that is what he told me. He also approved of my technique for measuring the spring.  The 7 pound spring would be good for 1275, using the same ratios.  Now, if you had issues with function or “pounding”, Wolff makes a 7.5 and an 8. He uses a 6 pound which is the lowest that Wolff makes and the Wolff is the ONLY a brand he uses...I know that from when he built or “mod’ed” my SA ROO wad gun last year.  

If I ever have to start shooting the stash of HV HP ammo, mostly Remington, I will opt for a 7.5 and if  there are issues, maybe one of the cheap buffer kits.

Again...not an expert, but a retired engineer that likes to understand things.

Do some research....there are many threads here that show up on Google that are old or archived here.  Rimfire Central site has some good info.

As the warning goes, take this with some skepticism until you can verify....and your mileage may differ.

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Post by rich.tullo 2/5/2021, 11:32 pm

dlevasse wrote:So here is what I am thinking. With the shortage of CCI standard velocity I am think about changing my 7 lb recoil spring to a 14lb spring and trying some 1850fps rounds.
My thinking is 7lbs spring for 1070fps should equal 13.96lb spring for 1850fps. I am hoping some one smarter than me has though through this.
Do not do that , mini mag with #7 ok that super high stuff will mess up your breach face.
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Post by bruce martindale 2/6/2021, 6:08 pm

Remember what goes up must come down...or if it comes back hard, it slams forward hard. 22 barrels are generally soft. A heavier spring could peen the working surfaces.

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Post by dlevasse 2/6/2021, 8:56 pm

I found a CCI 2020 Catalog on their web sight that list all of their rimfire ammunition it shows the velocity for each type, page 22 has a nice spread sheet.

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Post by Brent375hh 2/7/2021, 7:15 pm

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Post by Brent375hh 2/7/2021, 7:30 pm

My 41 will outlive me, even with high speed ammo. I should worry what I put in my mouth more than my magazine. The other 2 impact surfaces look much better. These two have simply mated to each other, due to standard spring moving them into battery. Standard spring means the one that came with it, 10s of thousands of rounds ago.


Last edited by Brent375hh on 2/7/2021, 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Brent375hh 2/7/2021, 7:33 pm

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Post by wingnut170 2/10/2021, 11:39 am

Wobbley wrote:Buy a new recoil spring from Gunsprings.com with a load rating one step above factory.  Add a buffer.  https://1022racerifle.com/buffer-technologies-smith-wesson-41-recoil-buffer-2-pack/

The spring keeps the slide velocity down and the buffer aebsorbs the excess energy.  Is it as good as SV? Probably not.  Reliability will likely be worse but it can get you by for training.  yMMV.
+ on the buffer

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