.30 Super Carry

I'm wondering if there will be any interest in making centerfire pistols in this caliber for precision pistol matches? The cartridge seems to have promising accuracy out of a test barrel at 50 yards from what I've read. Sub one inch, five shot groups at 50 yards from a test barrel, with factory ammo sounds promising. I'm thinking that maybe Darius Young would have been all over this, as he liked to tinker and develop different loads and pistols for centerfire matches.

Maybe if they make a 32 Super carry.

Centerfire pistols must 32 caliber or larger.

NRA Rules:
3.5 Any Center Fire Pistol or Revolver – The center fire pistol or revolver, as described below shall be used in the Center Fire Precision Pistol matches.

Center-fire pistols (single shot or semi-automatic)) or revolvers of .32 caliber or larger...

CMP Rules:
4.2.3 Centerfire Match Pistols Pistols and revolvers used in CMP-Sanctioned Centerfire Match Pistol Events must comply with this rule: 
a) The pistol must be chambered for any centerfire cartridge that is a minimum of .32 caliber and a maximum of .45 caliber.

Bullet diameter is basically the same, .313 for super carry vs .312 for the hornady xtp bullets people seem to like in 32acp. The only real difference between the two on paper that seems to be of note is increased case capacity. due to the longer case length of the super carry. 

Not sure it would really have much (if any) advantage at this point.

Why nothing in .380

380 would be interesting.
Off the top of my head, I've seen '32' pistol barrels spec'd from 309/310 up to 316 or thereabouts. So I think all you'd need is brass stamped 32 BE CF to get the officials off your bsck.

.32 caliber bullets aren't .32" in diameter, just like .38 SPL bullets don't measure .38". If I remember correctly, Doc Young had a barrel made for his .32 pistol that was .308". I imagine that this new cartridge would fall into the category of centerfire and if it gains popularity, down the road, it is likely that the rule books might even be amended to specify this particular caliber. Right now, the jacketed bullets in the commercial ammo are .312" according to Federal. The extra case capacity of the .30 Super Carry, could lead to some interesting bullets for target shooting (longer & heavier) than .32 ACP?

I remember seeing on the internet that .30 Luger was technically legal for Bullseye CF. If that's the case, 30 Super should be too. But I'm not sure a high velocity round would translate well to Bullseye. Keeping an eye on it for sure.

Dave

30 Luger is 7.65mm, technically, so a tick (just one) over 308.

30 Super would 'require' a locked breech, as it's loaded to the same pressure as a 327. So you'd need to do *something* to prevent a factory rd loaded into your Pardini ;-) Although I'm guessing it wouldn't fit the mag to start with, and you'd need a new pistol designed around it that's match worthy. A 1911 ????

What we really need is a 32ACP conversion similar to the 22 conversions. Nelson had a prototype made but abandoned it due to startup costs.

BE Mike wrote:The extra case capacity of the .30 Super Carry, could lead to some interesting bullets for target shooting (longer & heavier) than .32 ACP?

Hornady make XTP100JHP bullets that are just a bit longer than the XTP85JHP which are popular for 32ACP. It is quite possible to load those bullets in a 32ACP case, but someone on this forum mentioned that would definitely not be a good idea for a Pardini (I agree).

I use the XTP100 bullets for the Harry Reeves long line in my S&W K16-4 which is chambered for 32 Magnum, they are very accurate - IMHO. But I have not done any Ransom Rest testing with either gun, so have no definitive data on comparable group sizes.

WesG wrote:30 Luger is 7.65mm, technically, so a tick (just one) over 308.

30 Super would 'require' a locked breech, as it's loaded to the same pressure as a 327. So you'd need to do *something* to prevent a factory rd loaded into your Pardini ;-) Although I'm guessing it wouldn't fit the mag to start with, and you'd need a new pistol designed around it that's match worthy. A 1911 ????

Nighthawk Custom already has a 1911 in .30 Super Carry. I wonder if Accuracy X could be far behind?

Concern would be the amount of "umph" required to get a 1911 barrel to lock up repeatably. I think you could only download the round so much before you start having lock up issues. On that platform, my guess is a 38 wadcutter would be a better combo of accuracy and recoil than a 30 super. Now if someone comes out with a blowback design for a 30 super (like the conversion designs), it would be worth pursuing.

Dave

Just to elaborate a little further...

I would not count on a blowback 30 super coming out, because it would not be practical with literally any factory 30 super ammo...

Dave

The only thing exciting about this to me is 30 super may be a incremental (if accidental) step towards the mythical 1911 in 32 s&w long wadcutter.

As I understand it, the 30:Super Carry is a high pressure round.  Therefore not likely to be accurate due to high muzzle pressure.  I suppose it could be loaded down.  Blowback designs would be heavy.

As for having good lockup, that is more dependent on slide forward speed and that is a function of slide mass and spring energy.  I fail to see the draw really.

Merick wrote:The only thing exciting about this to me is 30 super may be a incremental (if accidental) step towards the mythical 1911 in 32 s&w long wadcutter.

Don't hold your breath, 32acp would be first and a long shot of ever being made either. A short rimmed cartridge seems like it would be problematic. As it is there are only a handful of smiths in the US capable of building a 38sp 1911 properly and they happen to fill out the mags. Makes more sense to make a 32acp conversion with a blowback slide and polymer mags designed to fit the cartridge. Can be done but nobody wants to tool up for low volume products. I would also be curious to see how snappy it would be, a conventional 1911 in 38sp, 9mm or 38 super may end up being softer to shoot.

zanemoseley wrote:

Merick wrote:The only thing exciting about this to me is 30 super may be a incremental (if accidental) step towards the mythical 1911 in 32 s&w long wadcutter.

Don't hold your breath, ..

All valid arguments against, and there are likely many more, but I don't think it would be impossible. 

-32 wc oal would fit in the magazine
-would only need to work with 5 rounds
-there were some 38 special mags hand made from 45 mags, they look like a very large colt ace type control round feed lips.  I think a 38 super mag may be a decent starting point, or slice up the new 30 mags.

That leaves lightening the daylights out of the slide, lining and re-chambering a barrel, and probably some work on the bolt face.

Or the other way around would be to build a beefed up marvel type conversion.

Undoubtedly it will be a long while before anyone has the motivation and resources to try.

Wobbley wrote:As I understand it, the 30:Super Carry is a high pressure round.  Therefore not likely to be accurate due to high muzzle pressure.  I suppose it could be loaded down.  Blowback designs would be heavy.

As for having good lockup, that is more dependent on slide forward speed and that is a function of slide mass and spring energy.  I fail to see the draw really.

That's what used to be said about the M9 Beretta, but the military pistolsmiths proved that wrong. Nobody can predict the future of the new cartridge. It may not "take off" as a defensive round, as the .45 GAP failed to do. It might draw interest from the action pistol crowd, like the .38 Super did for quite a while. If law enforcement agencies or the military show interest (the latter is highly unlikely) it might stick around. If a few custom pistolsmiths or hobbyists decide to do something with it, it could get interesting.

Wonder what progress Nelson has made on the .32 conversion.

james r chapman wrote:Wonder what progress Nelson has made on the .32 conversion.

As I mentioned they told me they had a prototype but couldn't justify the cost to tool up for full production. Its a shame because I think they could charge $1k at least for a nice accurate 32acp conversion.

BE Mike wrote:

Wobbley wrote:As I understand it, the 30:Super Carry is a high pressure round.  Therefore not likely to be accurate due to high muzzle pressure.  I suppose it could be loaded down.  Blowback designs would be heavy.

As for having good lockup, that is more dependent on slide forward speed and that is a function of slide mass and spring energy.  I fail to see the draw really.

That's what used to be said about the M9 Beretta, but the military pistolsmiths proved that wrong. Nobody can predict the future of the new cartridge. It may not "take off" as a defensive round, as the .45 GAP failed to do. It might draw interest from the action pistol crowd, like the .38 Super did for quite a while. If law enforcement agencies or the military show interest (the latter is highly unlikely) it might stick around. If a few custom pistolsmiths or hobbyists decide to do something with it, it could get interesting.

30 Super is clearly higher pressure than 32ACP, which many say can be snappy. For a sport that you only need 5 rounds in a magazine 30 Super doesn't make sense. Why shoot a hotter '32' cartridge when you much more easily shoot 9mm?

chiz1180 wrote:

BE Mike wrote:

Wobbley wrote:As I understand it, the 30:Super Carry is a high pressure round.  Therefore not likely to be accurate due to high muzzle pressure.  I suppose it could be loaded down.  Blowback designs would be heavy.

As for having good lockup, that is more dependent on slide forward speed and that is a function of slide mass and spring energy.  I fail to see the draw really.

That's what used to be said about the M9 Beretta, but the military pistolsmiths proved that wrong. Nobody can predict the future of the new cartridge. It may not "take off" as a defensive round, as the .45 GAP failed to do. It might draw interest from the action pistol crowd, like the .38 Super did for quite a while. If law enforcement agencies or the military show interest (the latter is highly unlikely) it might stick around. If a few custom pistolsmiths or hobbyists decide to do something with it, it could get interesting.

30 Super is clearly higher pressure than 32ACP, which many say can be snappy. For a sport that you only need 5 rounds in a magazine 30 Super doesn't make sense. Why shoot a hotter '32' cartridge when you much more easily shoot 9mm?

There are always people who want to try new things. It may be that some .30 Super Carry bullets could have a better cross sectional density and result in better accuracy than the 9mm. It might turn out that loading the .30 Super Carry down, may produce very good groups at 50 yards. Actually, I gave up using a S&W model 52-1 for centerfire, on the advice of much better shooters, and shot just a .22 and .45ACP for my last years of competing. The suggestion by those top shooters worked for me.

BE Mike wrote:I'm wondering if there will be any interest in making centerfire pistols in this caliber for precision pistol matches? The cartridge seems to have promising accuracy out of a test barrel at 50 yards from what I've read. Sub one inch, five shot groups at 50 yards from a test barrel, with factory ammo sounds promising. I'm thinking that maybe Darius Young would have been all over this, as he liked to tinker and develop different loads and pistols for centerfire matches.

Gosh
That is a name from the past. I recall reading about him in the American Rifleman in 1983! He won all the ISSF Pistol titles in USA.
I recall he used a Unique for Standard Pistol.

Do you know where he is now/ Any contact details?

Thanks

Unfortunately, he has left the range:  
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t17595-shooter-has-left-the-range