38 SPECIAL CASE LENGTH

I started to load another batch of 38 SPECIAL 148g HBWC'S today and noticed that my star cases have an OAL of .130+/-about .002.  The SAAMI specification for case length is 1.155 -.020.  So my cases are about .005 under minimum.  When I loaded them last fed my Model 52 OK.  What else can go wrong with under size cases?  I expect the pressure will be up a little.
Doug

Never worried about .38 spl cases.
Probably the most forgiving cartridge out there!

Don't sweat the small stuff! You are good to go. Lube 'em up, load 'em up and shoot 'em up. You're not an engineer by any chance, are you?

james r chapman wrote:Never worried about .38 spl cases.
Probably the most forgiving cartridge out there!

Forgiving cartridge, that what I like to hear.    I will test a few loaded .010 to .015 proud of the case instead of flush. That way they will have the same OAL (and case pressure) as my load with Winchester cases. 
Thanks,
Doug

djw1cav wrote:

james r chapman wrote:Never worried about .38 spl cases.
Probably the most forgiving cartridge out there!

Forgiving cartridge, that what I like to hear.    I will test a few loaded .010 to .015 proud of the case instead of flush. That way they will have the same OAL (and case pressure) as my load with Winchester cases. 
Thanks,
Doug

I wouldn't load them with any lead from the full wadcutter bullet sticking out. For the model 52, they should be flush seated or even a little further into the case.

BE Mike wrote:Don't sweat the small stuff! You are good to go. Lube 'em up, load 'em up and shoot 'em up. You're not an engineer by any chance, are you?

BE Mike
Engineer?  Does it show?  I am aware of the problem and try to fight it,  but the urges are sooo strong. 
Doug

only time i need to have the same case length , is when i load for the SW 52. they need flush mount heads. any lead past the case and its a jam-o-matic. so case length matters with the fickle 52
it helps to have the same head stamps since they usually maintain the same length over time. sometimes maybe

We must be celebrating El Dia de los Muertos with this 2 year old thread!

You're loading HBWC heads in Star Line cases?
Some say that's a no-no due to internal case taper of Star Line brass.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t24161-38spl-hbwc-for-revolver

split cases new Star Line Brass .38 HBWC Zero  - 2.9g TG could be related.

Is that nickel brass?

Atlanta Arms sells .38 148 HBWC loaded with 2.8-2.9 TG in mixed brass.

I shot a couple hundred of them without issue, other than they wouldn't hold 10 ring from my 52 at 25 yds.

DA/SA wrote:Is that nickel brass?

Atlanta Arms sells .38 148 HBWC loaded with 2.8-2.9 TG in mixed brass.

I shot a couple hundred of them without issue, other than they wouldn't hold 10 ring from my 52 at 25 yds.

yes brand new Nickel split does not make sense.
im using Zero heads hold 10 ring at 25 yards in ease.

Hard to tell fron the pic, so may not be, but it appears that the brass is being sized down quite a bit and then expanded back out to seat the bullet.

Have you measured the OO of the case after sizing, and again after expanding, to see how much the brass is being worked!

Why the nickel brass for such light loads? I may be wrong, but I associate nickel brass with heavier defensive loads.

djw1cav wrote:

james r chapman wrote:Never worried about .38 spl cases.
Probably the most forgiving cartridge out there!

Forgiving cartridge, that what I like to hear.    I will test a few loaded .010 to .015 proud of the case instead of flush. That way they will have the same OAL (and case pressure) as my load with Winchester cases. 
Thanks,
Doug

The same OAL would seem to work?  But i dont have experence with a 52.  If you test it, please post results. Ty.

djw1cav wrote:

james r chapman wrote:Never worried about .38 spl cases.
Probably the most forgiving cartridge out there!

Forgiving cartridge, that what I like to hear.    I will test a few loaded .010 to .015 proud of the case instead of flush. That way they will have the same OAL (and case pressure) as my load with Winchester cases. 
Thanks,
Doug

Mine stick in the magazine and cause feeding issues on my 52 if loaded proud of the case instead of flush.

YMMV!

Nickle cases split because the nickle adds no strength. The brass wall is thinner due to plating. Total wall thickness is the same as brass cases

DA/SA wrote:Hard to tell fron the pic, so may not be, but it appears that the brass is being sized down quite a bit and then expanded back out to seat the bullet.

Have you measured the OO of the case after sizing, and again after expanding, to see how much the brass is being worked!

Why the nickel brass for such light loads? I may be wrong, but I associate nickel brass with heavier defensive loads.

purchased 500 rds from an estate sale.
i will use other brass for the Smith 52, it does not seem to like the nickel.
ill put that to use in the revolver. 
i will check the width before and after. thanks for the info.

I inherited a bunch of mixed 38 brass. Case lengths all over the place. I remembered loading for my Dad, and backing the seating die off and turning it in a bit at a time until I'd feel a bump for the crimp.

I sorted thru it, and picked 3 lengths. Made spacers to account for that, and then trimmed the brass into 3 batches.

Picking thru it a bit, I'd forgotten I'm using a 38 Super die for sizing. Likely picked that tip up here.

I guage pinned a bunch of cases looking for 'wadcutter' brass. I don't recall finding anything that wouldn't be suitable for HBWC. I haven't dug around for more notes yet, but I think even Starline was OK.

Adding... cannelured cases, even after firing/sizing/expanding multiple times, can fool you on 'straight case' length for seating depth.

I have loaded untold thousands of 148 WC that have been shot out of numerous firearms including 52’s. 2.8 gr. of WST, seated flush, roll crimped. Never considered case length.

My new Starline cases came in at 1.147". I'm surprised there's that much variation.

I have not been able to load 148 gr HBWC or DEWC in USGI cases.  The taper is such that the resulting bulge from seating the bullet flush precludes it chambering.  I no longer use such brass for this use and it works fine for other bullets.

Stumbled across a scrap of paper on my bench, .38 Sp stuff.

Starline, new: .356 pin, .645 deep.
Winchester 148 HBWC: .358 pin, .615 deep.
Winchester 158 SWC: .354 pin, .665 deep. A fair bit of crimp that didn't 'uncrimp', so a larger pin wouldn't fit. I suspect it's the same brass, might try expanding them and see if they match up.

Federal 125 JHP: .358 pin, .690 deep. Old red box from the 80's? ???? Must have bought that for Dad's Chief's Special. I bought a M-27 on my 21st BD, 1980. Don't recall ever shooting any 38 in it.

Bear Creek, I think, 148 HBWC: ~.600 long. A couple dud's ... had a cleaning rod, and found a suitable rock behind the firing line. Thanks again Rod ;-)

Semper Paratus, Wes!

That section of cleaning rod has been riding shotgun back to the days when I first started my reloading adventures on a progressive press. Lol

So since we are on the subject of bulging cases and the 38 WC, federal and Winchester cases sound like they measure okay to start loading 38 HBWC, yes?

Yes