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.45 Short line loads

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Post by mhayford45 Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:55 am

question in the description......

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Post by mspingeld Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:58 am

My shortline load is 3.9 gn N310, Zero 185 LSWHP, crimp .465". Shoulder of bullet just over case mouth by about .020" (not crucial as long as it's consistent and feeds in your gun.

This is a soft load. My gun has an 11lb recoil spring, 19lb mainspring.

Question is tricky since your gun will be particular based on tightness of build, springs, etc. Tell us what you're working with. Any load you choose will require some experimentation in your gun for consistent function.

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Post by chiz1180 Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:13 am

what is the min load of BE with 185 gn bullets for sealing the case/chamber and is that important?

Back when I had a long and short line load, I determined my gun could function 3.6 bullseye with a 185swc, the cycle rate was very slow and was not the most reliable if the gun was fairly dirty.

I later came to the conclusion that if hotter loads were causing me issues on the short line, they almost certainly would cause the same issues on the long line. Currently shoot 4.0-4.1 with a 185, a bit warmer that 3.6, but not insanely so. Good compromise between accuracy and fairly soft shooting.
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Post by Toz35m Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:43 am

I  cast my 185 SWC.  Crip is .462.  Shoulder of bullet about .020 past end of case. I have 2 loads depending on the out side temp either 4.0 N310 or 5.6 of BE86.  Both are light loads but keep the slide moving.

The problem with N310 is when the temp is lower than the low 60's the empties do not seem to all make it into the brass catcher.  it is cleaner burning than the BE86.

I would like to use 3.9 N310 so then for the long line all I need to do is swap to a 200 SWC.
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Post by brdrgrd Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:38 am

I have 2 loadings capable of taking out the X ring if I do my part.

3.9 gr of Titegroup, using a 180 gr Brazos head, seated at .925 between bullet shoulder and case rim, .470 crimp

4.3 gr of Bullseye, using a 160 gr Brazos head, seated at .950 between bullet shoulder and case rim, .470 crimp

I have a 15lb recoil spring in my Les Baer

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Post by mhayford45 Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:17 pm

So, I am shooting a Caspian frame and slide with a kart barrel, David Sams frame mounted dot with a 16 lb recoil spring. 

Long line - I shoot 4.04 gns of BE with a Zero 185 swchp crimp at .469-.470. 

Short line- I am currently shooting 3.35 gns BE all else then same as above. This functions very well. 

My observations are as follows:

The long line load feels great, is accurate and seems to have less recoil than the short line in my hand. The energy feels different than the short line load...

The short line load is accurate but seems to have more recoil movement than the long long in my hand. 

I find this perplexing as many top shooters try to reduce recoil with less of a load. But it feels different in the hand than the long line.

The sound of the long line long has a distinctive "whummmp"  to it and the short line lacks this sound ...

So to my question... is there a point in which there is a difference in feel in the hand, load and case/chamber sealing etc... or is this just all in my fantasy world?  I was going to try increasing the short line load a few tenths at a time to see if it makes a difference.... but thought I would asking first before wasting my time and resources.

I hope that make sense.

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Post by Toz35m Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:29 pm

I have not tried it but I know some people shoot 160gr at the short line.  Not sure if they notice less recoil vs 185.

For the short line I just reduce to a load where my gun functions 100% of the time WIHTOUT needing the change out a spring.  I do not need one more thing to keep track of when changing from 50 to 25.
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Post by james r chapman Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:33 pm

Toz35m wrote:I have not tried it but I know some people shoot 160gr at the short line.  Not sure if they notice less recoil vs 185.

For the short line I just reduce to a load where my gun functions 100% of the time WIHTOUT needing the change out a spring.  I do not need one more thing to keep track of when changing from 50 to 25.
I find the 160 works well all around, but, it takes about 4.4 BE to work reliably with my slide mounted dot.
Not terribly softer compared to 3.8-4.0 BE and a 185/200
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Post by Toz35m Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:53 pm

james r chapman wrote:
Toz35m wrote:I have not tried it but I know some people shoot 160gr at the short line.  Not sure if they notice less recoil vs 185.

For the short line I just reduce to a load where my gun functions 100% of the time WIHTOUT needing the change out a spring.  I do not need one more thing to keep track of when changing from 50 to 25.
I find the 160 works well all around, but, it takes about 4.4 BE to work reliably with my slide mounted dot.
Not terribly softer compared to 3.8-4.0 BE and a 185/200

Good to know.  Then I will not invest in a mold to cast 160's
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Post by jglenn21 Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:10 pm

I am a large fan of WST for the short line very different recoil impulse than BE.. more of a push than the snap BE has. 3.9-4.0 WST and a 180 FBSWC.. 4.3 WST with the 160 Brazos swc

slide mounted Dot and a 10lb recoil spring 19 lb mainspring
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Post by bruce martindale Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:33 pm

The Brazos 160 will take a bit more powder than a plain cast.

Mine both work with 3.9 BE.

Was using 4.2 but it's flashy.

Look to the classic loads of old; 3.5-3.6 with a 200, whumpers. the #130 at 185gr has more bearing surface and is seated deeper so it has more recoil. You can reduce powder here, or go slower in burn rate

 As bullet inertia drops, more powder is needed so your gain is limited.
That's why 9 mm isn't the answer either...


Last edited by bruce martindale on Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by straybrit Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:18 pm

bruce martindale wrote:
That's why 9 mm isn't the answer either...
Although I find that 115g 9mm with 4.4(ish)g of N330 is accurate at the short line and has a very acceptable recoil. I keep meaning to test with 124g and 147g but life is short and I still have to work for a living. Curses.

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Post by WesG Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:46 pm

Don't remember what I was loading, Titegroup, and 310 maybe, but the 160's were quite snappy once I got the gun functioning reliably. Went to WST, (not sure why now exactly, maybe bought it for 38 and had no bullseye no mo) with 200's and I like the 'push' better.

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