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Using neck sizing bushings to full-size straight-wall cases?

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Using neck sizing bushings to full-size straight-wall cases? Empty Using neck sizing bushings to full-size straight-wall cases?

Post by DK114 2/22/2023, 6:27 pm

Has anyone seen a die adapter that would take a neck busing e.g., from Redding, holding it low enough to be used as full-length case sizer for say .32 S&W Long?

I know that a few folks have been expanding regular sizing dies to bigger diameters to reduce the amount of fired case sizing to bare minimum, but the process of grinding is.. well, a process, and you need a separate die for brass with different wall thickness and perhaps even age.

On the other hand, neck sizing bushings are readily available in various materials and 0.001" increments, so if there was a way to mount such bushings in a die where it could get it close to the die entrance (as opposed to deep inside where it sits for rifle cases), one could in theory use such jig to resize straight wall cases to a precise OD with easy ability to go up or down 0.001" by just swapping a bushing (e.g., when your cases go through more firings and harden to produce less spring-back).

Or am I talking rubbish here?  Laughing

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Post by Wobbley 2/22/2023, 6:58 pm

Might try here.  https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/sizing/sbns
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Post by fc60 2/22/2023, 7:12 pm

Greetings,

The interchangeable bushings are hardened Steel. You may end up having to use case lube and deal with scratches on the cases.

For the cost of a Brush Research Diamond Flex-Hone and a handful of Lee Carbide sizing dies you can make a lot of dies in different diameters.

Take care of the Flex-Hone by using lots of lubricant and hones last quite a while.

I have opened up about twenty dies with the hone I have.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by DK114 2/22/2023, 9:42 pm

Wobbley wrote:Might try here.  https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/sizing/sbns

Thank you Smile

These look like they're for rifle cartridges, though.. Not sure 32 S&W Long would be long enough to reach the neck sizer portion. Might ask them, I guess.

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Post by DK114 2/22/2023, 10:08 pm

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

The interchangeable bushings are hardened Steel. You may end up having to use case lube and deal with scratches on the cases.

For the cost of a Brush Research Diamond Flex-Hone and a handful of Lee Carbide sizing dies you can make a lot of dies in different diameters.

( ... )

Dave
Redding makes titanium nitride bushings that go for $33.20 a piece, in the same ballpark as a Lee carbide sizer: https://www.accuratearmsandammo.com/category.sc?categoryId=445

And as much joy as it is to make something with one's hands, in our parts of the world some tools are just not that easy to come by - it's been quite an adventure for me to find a 9mm Diamond Flex-Hone in 800 grit. Sad

All while the Redding titanium nitride bushings are readily available from bench rest stores.

Actually now that I have thought a bit more about it, I could use a Lee universal expander and make an adapter for it to hold a Redding bushing. Won't even need to modify the Lee expander at all. Bushings are 1/2" OD which should fit just fine into Lee's throat (0.5525") leaving enough for the adapter.

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Post by WesG 2/23/2023, 2:44 pm

Easier to use an oversize expander and ignore the OD.

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Post by DK114 2/23/2023, 4:17 pm

WesG wrote:Easier to use an oversize expander and ignore the OD.

I guess the argument is that it's better to resize brass as little and as few times as possible..

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Post by WesG 2/25/2023, 4:56 pm

DK114 wrote:
WesG wrote:Easier to use an oversize expander and ignore the OD.

I guess the argument is that it's better to resize brass as little and as few times as possible..
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I'm using a 454 die on my 45 brass for that reason. And I've honed out a few of my standard rifle dies as well.

One of the bushing dies I have would not size necks concentric with the bushing floating. I got it locked down by dumb luck and never touched it again. Probably not an issue with a straight wall case.

Different brass with different wall thickness, I think I'd opt for a combination that works for all. IOW, smooshes the thin ones down enough for the PE expander to do it's thing. And just live with the thicker ones failing, maybe, a bit sooner.

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Post by PhotoEscape 2/25/2023, 7:41 pm

IMHO, it is much easier to hone few Lee Carbide sizing dies then adopt Redding's bushings to Lee's Universal Expander die.  There are some technical challenges designing fixture, that will hold bushings low enough for full length case sizing, as there must be some ridge at the bottom of it to prevent bushings from being pulled down out of the die.  Carbide rings are press fit in the dies from the bottom and limited by ridge at the top from moving up.  And yet, sometimes rings are being pulled out of the die, - I personally experienced such with Dillon carbide sizing die (Dillon fixed it of course at no charge).  In addition to the above, there would be a need to adapt depriming rod to work with Universal Expander die, or lose this function to separate brass processing step.

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Post by DK114 2/25/2023, 11:43 pm

PhotoEscape wrote:IMHO, it is much easier to hone few Lee Carbide sizing dies then adopt Redding's bushings to Lee's Universal Expander die.  There are some technical challenges designing fixture, that will hold bushings low enough for full length case sizing, as there must be some ridge at the bottom of it to prevent bushings from being pulled down out of the die.  Carbide rings are press fit in the dies from the bottom and limited by ridge at the top from moving up.  And yet, sometimes rings are being pulled out of the die, - I personally experienced such with Dillon carbide sizing die (Dillon fixed it of course at no charge).  In addition to the above, there would be a need to adapt depriming rod to work with Universal Expander die, or lose this function to separate brass processing step.

AP

Here's where my mind's at regarding the fixture:

Using neck sizing bushings to full-size straight-wall cases? Screen10

(Sizes are in metric, soz) Smile

[Update: I made a mistake, the red-circled "12.68" on Part 1 should be "12.72"]

I've ordered a bushing and will update the size(s) circled in red (I got them third hand). The way it would work is bushing will drop into the part 1, and get propped by the part 2. Then you'd use one of the expanders that came with the Lee (smaller one) by turning it upside down, expander part toward the top, which will hide inside the top screw plug.

Note that with the dimensions above this will leave the bottom of the bushing 0.087" away from the die's bottom face, so it won't be technically "full length", though I'm not sure that matters much?

Anyway, you're right about the decapper - I was planning to decap separately anyway so that I can pin-tumble without primers and resize only once clean.


Last edited by DK114 on 2/28/2023, 4:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Mistake on the drawing)

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Post by WesG 2/26/2023, 12:55 pm

A carbide bushing, silver brazed in the bottom is as close as you're going to get. But you still need a lead-in to keep from crunching cases, so you're never going to get all the way to the shell holder anyway.

Seems to me Lee does custom diameters.

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Post by DK114 2/26/2023, 2:59 pm

WesG wrote:A carbide bushing, silver brazed in the bottom is as close as you're going to get. But you still need a lead-in to keep from crunching cases, so you're never going to get all the way to the shell holder anyway.

Seems to me Lee does custom diameters.

Yeah, I was wondering about the lead-in - how does it work for the rifle cases' necks? It's the bushing's job to size the neck, right? The bushing does seem to have at least some some taper in pictures I've seen. Will see when mine arrives.

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Post by WesG 2/27/2023, 12:02 pm

There's a small radius on them. For a rifle case, you've got the body portion of the die aligning things well enough.

I've crunched more pistol cases than I care to admit over the years, even with the lead-in the dies have.

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Post by DK114 2/28/2023, 4:22 am

Ok, the bushing is here and I've given it a try by 3d-printing the two parts in my drawing.

Notes:

- The size of the bushing as specified in the drawing is correct.
- 3d-printed part #1, at least the way mine was in the material we used, didn't work. It sheared when pulling the die off the shell case. So would probably need to be made of steel Smile
- Bushing is not super-polished inside. Also, since it's not carbide, using it requires case lube.
- I pushed bushing over about 2/3 of the case's length. Given that the busing is straight inside, this left a fairly notable ridge between the sized and non-sized parts of the case. Not sure how I feel about that.
- The resized part came out very close to accurately round. This is nice because both of my regular sizing dies (Redding premium and RCBS carbide) leave cases slightly oval (they do come out slightly oval after being shot, so not sure if that's the sizer's fault or whatever).

Anyway, I think the conclusion of this trial is "The task has failed successfully" Very Happy 

I'm waiting for my Lee carbide die and the hone, and will go down the path well-trodden Smile

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Post by WesG 2/28/2023, 9:56 pm

It's more likely to have something like this come out 'round', the more you work it. The factory dies, sizing it some minimal amount, it's likely to spring back out of round a bit. Ssme goes for an expander.

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Post by DK114 2/28/2023, 11:21 pm

WesG wrote:It's more likely to have something like this come out 'round', the more you work it. The factory dies, sizing it some minimal amount, it's likely to spring back out of round a bit. Ssme goes for an expander.

The funny thing is that my factory dies work brass more than this bushing.. The two standard sizers I have measure around 0.3315", while this bushing is 0.333". Not sure what to make of that! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Post by WesG 2/28/2023, 11:57 pm

Factory dies are put of round? Should be noticeable with calipers on the ID.

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Post by DK114 3/1/2023, 1:21 am

WesG wrote:Factory dies are put of round? Should be noticeable with calipers on the ID.

Seem to be round, both of them.. I know that cases come out oval after being fired in my gun (Pardini new). Perhaps the oval-ness is residual from that?

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