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National Matches

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Colt711
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Post by mspingeld Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:10 pm

https://thecmp.org/cmp-national-matches/

Scroll down to the picture where it says "pistol". That's me!

Hope to see you all there.

(now you'll recognize me 🤣.)

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Post by PhotoEscape Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:36 pm

Boy, I love that picture, Mike!  Smile Sad 

AP
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Post by chopper Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:40 pm

Hmmm, maybe you better wear the same t-shirt every day.
Stan

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Post by mspingeld Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:41 pm

Here come the autograph hounds! The price of fame.

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Post by chopper Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:44 pm

You make good money doing autographs.
Stan

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Post by PhotoEscape Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:48 pm

National Matches NM-Pistolicon23-1024x771

Devil is in details........... National Matches 1f606 

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Post by Cmysix Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:52 pm

without a good pic of your face how is a person supposed to avoid you?
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Post by Arthur Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:53 pm

The heck with that picture. Show them the one with you loaded down with trophies / awards at Perry last year. That was really a great one. 

Best, 
Arthur

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Post by ric1911a1 Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:38 pm

I thought you had my gun for a moment or two. Just the gun, my arm hasn't looked like that for at least 30 years................

Ric
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Post by Frank Brown Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:27 pm

are the national matches still held at Camp Perry?

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Post by John Dervis Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:17 pm

Frank Brown wrote:are the national matches still held at Camp Perry?
The CMP runs the national matches at Camp Perry now.  For pistol, they kept close to the same format for the 2700 portion plus kept their ball matches.  They have also offered several new days / matches that one can compete in but I personally haven’t done anything else except Air Pistol.  I’m not sure what they do for small bore and high power but they also run matches for those.  The NRA holds their version of the Nationals at Camp Atterbury Indiana.  They can’t call it National Matches though.  The scores and records of old etc are historically from this sanctioned match.  They began splitting apart a while ago but made the full split official in 2021. It was supposed to be 2020 but everything was shut down that year.  So far the NRA matches have been small but I’ve attended both years and I like the venue.  It’s like anything new or a change in the old, it takes awhile to catch on.  I hope it continues. 

John

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Post by SingleActionAndrew Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:44 am

John Dervis wrote:
Frank Brown wrote:are the national matches still held at Camp Perry?
[...] The NRA holds their version of the Nationals at Camp Atterbury Indiana.  They can’t call it National Matches though.  [...]

Hey John, NRA does call them the National Matches
https://competitions.nra.org/competitions/nra-national-matches/
https://competitions.nra.org/media/8892/2023-atterbury-national-matches-program.pdf
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Post by Jack H Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:08 pm

Who is the "National Champion"?  The CMP winner or the NRA winner?
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Post by Jon Eulette Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:16 pm

Jack H wrote:Who is the "National Champion"?  The CMP winner or the NRA winner?
I lean toward NRA National Champion because historically that is/was the match we determined the "National Champion" from. When we look up NRA champions that's always been the listed source.....

My 2 cents.

Jon
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Post by chiz1180 Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:28 pm

Jack H wrote:Who is the "National Champion"?  The CMP winner or the NRA winner?
I would argue the larger match, CMP. A match with 80 people is not on the same scale as one with 400.
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Post by Jon Eulette Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:40 pm

I just searched 2022 CMP Nationals Results. 21 High Masters. That’s the reality of the event…..yeah I probably just pissed off a lot of people, but we’re discussing “The National Champion “.
NRA 2022 Nationals had 19 High Masters.

Apples and Oranges……

So if an up and coming Expert wins Nationals, I salute you in advance!

Jon


Last edited by Jon Eulette on Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by chiz1180 Tue Apr 18, 2023 7:16 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I just searched 2022 CMP Nationals Results. 21 High Masters. That’s the reality of the event…..yeah I probably just pissed off a lot of people, but we’re discussing “The National Champion “.
NRA 2022 Nationals had 19 High Masters.

Apples and Oranges……

So if an up and coming Expert wins Nationals, I salute you in advance!

Jon

Jon
Welcome to the reality of the sport, very few high master shoot today than 20 years ago.
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Post by james r chapman Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:08 pm

I guess I'd want to see the results of both to declare a National Champion.
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Post by RoyDean Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:43 pm

I started after the NRA exited from Perry, so have very limited experience, but I've attended all four of the "Tour Events" these past few years. If I am not mistaken almost all of the "elite" shooters were at both Perry and Atterbury last year and probably the year before. Jim can indeed check the results of both to declare his "National Champion", the results are online for all to see. IMHO, winning at either venue is equally valid since the "elite" field is almost identical.

My 2c.

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Post by chiz1180 Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:23 am

Roy brings up a valid point, their are four matches in that time frame that have a "National" draw. Many (though not all) of the top shooters shoot all four matches, if National Champion is only derived by elite shooter participation, why would the winner of Canton not be the National Champion? High score at Canton in 2022 was a 2653, a higher score than any of the other three matches.
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Post by Jon Eulette Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:39 am

Canton is a REGIONAL Championship. Doesn't have the same pressure as Perry did back in the day. Canton Winner has never won Perry in same year....................someone double check me on that.

It's always been a matter of whose name is on the list as NRA Nat'l Champion. CMP having their own 2700 is now cause for second thoughts?
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Post by chopper Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:11 pm

Having never been to the National Matches I probably don't have much say so about this. Here is my take on it anyway. There are 2 major sanctioning bodies and each has its followers, to me they are equal in that they both represent precision shooting. So if each has an overall champion with the highest score, then there could be a true National Champion between both NRA/CMP bodies with a shoot off 2700. There could be an invite only between the top 5 highest scoring shooters from both CMP and the NRA. If a shooter is in both of the top five, then there will only be 9 competing or possibly less if more than one is duplicated.
 Wouldn't it be something if an Expert made it to the invite, like Jon says "salutes to them".

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Post by SaraiEsq Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:42 pm

CMP 2022
Jon Shue  2647-141X
Carl Clegg  2632-123X
Ryan Franks  2630-119X
John Zurek  2629-117X
Lisa Traciak  2629-114X

NRA 2022
Carl Clegg 2649-143X
Jon Shue  2648-129X
John Zurek  2639-131X
Greg Markowski  2634-109X
Daniel Kupar  2630-116X

Name // CMP finish // NRA finish
Jon Shue // 1 / 2
Carl Clegg // 2 / 1
Ryan Franks // 3 / (did not fire complete 2700)
John Zurek // 4 / 3
Lisa Traciak // 5 / 8
Greg Markowski // 19 / 4
Daniel Kupar // 25 / 5


Last edited by SaraiEsq on Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:04 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : provide top five finishers; provide finishes)
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Post by chopper Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:16 pm

Sarai, that would be a fun match to watch, if it was televised I would watch it.
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Post by chiz1180 Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:19 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Canton is a REGIONAL Championship. Doesn't have the same pressure as Perry did back in the day. Canton Winner has never won Perry in same year....................someone double check me on that.

It's always been a matter of whose name is on the list as NRA Nat'l Champion. CMP having their own 2700 is now cause for second thoughts?
Jon
Canton had more participation than NRA, by that logic more pressure.
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