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Question about 22's

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84gn
jglenn21
troystaten
RoyDean
Sc0
WillH
WesG
Merick
Foundryratjim
popchevy
clark2245
DA/SA
L. Boscoe
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Question about 22's Empty Question about 22's

Post by L. Boscoe Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:50 pm

the first serious 22 I had 40 years ago was a Colt Ace.  It was ok, but I was into 45's, so no real experience.
Now, being old and having plenty of time, I am rebuilding my BE abilities, such as they are, to get serious
about it.  I have a 22 Ruger and a Marvel conversion. Both are really choosy about what you feed them-neither
likes Norma Tac 22's (probably because they are greasy), and both jam and stovepipe more than any 45 I
own, and that is probably six or more. The 22's are OK with Federal's range offering, but still jam.
I can see where a small skinny round is more difficult to feed than a fatter one, but it is likely I am doing
something wrong (I have done such before).  Wisdom much appreciated8)

L. Boscoe

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by DA/SA Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:53 pm

Try some CCI SV.

My marvel won't feed Tac 22 at all even trying different magazines.
DA/SA
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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by clark2245 Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:20 pm

It's usually a question of sufficient energy to function the gun.  Rugers generally come from the factory set up to handle any ammo someone might feed them, which usually means high velocity, or even the extra hot stuff.  If you feed them standard velocity target ammo it might not be enough to function it properly, especially at first until it breaks in a little.  With the Marvel's and similar conversions a little testing can be helpful.  The non lock back models come with a 9# recoil spring as standard and it makes a difference what main spring (hammer spring) your 1911 has in it, since it must cock the hammer as part of functioning.  Some smiths build their guns with a 22# or even a little stronger main spring, in which case you will need to reduce the recoil spring in the Marvel to 8# or even possibly a  7# to make it work.   Its a total energy thing to get good function.  You have to move the slide all the way back, and as part of that cock the hammer.  With a 19# main spring the standard 9# recoil spring usually works well with standard velocity ammo.  Only way to be sure is to test different recoil springs with whatever ammo you are going to use (something that is accurate in your gun).  Recoil spring packs are available from Marvel.

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by popchevy Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:35 pm

My Ruger mk4 runs good with CCI SV , it does NOT like Norma Tac 22's so I ran the rest of the box through my 10-22 , it didn't like em either. Try the CCI , they work 100% for me.

popchevy

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by Foundryratjim Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:32 pm

popchevy wrote:My Ruger mk4 runs good with CCI SV , it does NOT like Norma Tac 22's so I ran the rest of the box through my 10-22 , it didn't like em either. Try the CCI , they work 100% for me.
I concur on the Tac 22 ammo. Will not cycle well in my Clark custom 22/45. It is very accurate out of my bolt action Ruger precision rifle. I use cci sv or Aguilla sv in the 22/45.

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by Merick Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:51 pm

There is such a thing as a volquartsen adjustable spring kit for rugers, though I've never seen it mentioned here.

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by WesG Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:25 pm

22's suck. Just get a 45 ;-)

Both my M-41 and FW have their issues with whatever I've fed them. CCI SV wasn't a fix with either one. RWS Pistol Target seems to work pretty well in the Fwub. Not sure with the SW. Norma Match was good, maybe. Different than Tac ... likely just lot sorting I'd think.

Haven't shot the Nelson enough to say anything useful. Maybe better?

Weird thing is my Kidd 10-22 with a Bentz chamber seems to run with about anything. Just barrel length (bore time)?

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by WillH Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:49 pm

My Marvel won't run Norma Tac either.  But if you clean off all that extra wax off of them they will probably run and shoot OK.  I lay out a towel, spray some Wd-40 on it, place the rounds on there, and roll them around and finish off by giving each one a twist with a rag after it's softened up.  A bit of work but maybe worth it if you've got a lot of them.  Here lately i've also found new CCI Std (light blue box) not as good as old with higher rates of problems. About best you can do is test out different brands and see what works best but in general 22 not as reliable as center fire because of a variety of factors.  I have called the BE line a lot over the past few years at our club and have noticed alibis are consistently more frequent on 22 stages for the most part.  I would not want to depend on any 22 for defense since intruders usually don't allow alibis.
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Question about 22's Empty Finicky 22

Post by L. Boscoe Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:55 pm

clark2245 wrote:It's usually a question of sufficient energy to function the gun.  Rugers generally come from the factory set up to handle any ammo someone might feed them, which usually means high velocity, or even the extra hot stuff.  If you feed them standard velocity target ammo it might not be enough to function it properly, especially at first until it breaks in a little.  With the Marvel's and similar conversions a little testing can be helpful.  The non lock back models come with a 9# recoil spring as standard and it makes a difference what main spring (hammer spring) your 1911 has in it, since it must cock the hammer as part of functioning.  Some smiths build their guns with a 22# or even a little stronger main spring, in which case you will need to reduce the recoil spring in the Marvel to 8# or even possibly a  7# to make it work.   Its a total energy thing to get good function.  You have to move the slide all the way back, and as part of that cock the hammer.  With a 19# main spring the standard 9# recoil spring usually works well with standard velocity ammo.  Only way to be sure is to test different recoil springs with whatever ammo you are going to use (something that is accurate in your gun).  Recoil spring packs are available from Marvel.
My frame is a Les Baer Premier, I will check and see what the main spring is.  I have some springs from Marvel, might try that first.
many thanks

L. Boscoe

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by Sc0 Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:27 pm

Norma Tac22 had/has quality control problems. Hit or miss, out of a single 15k order I received 3 different lots. First 5k was a good lot, second 5k I am getting 25yd keyholes often and low velocity gun jams but haven't chrono'd it yet (Xesse and MG2). Switched to CCI STD, which also has an issue with too much wax on the bullet which keeps the slide from going back to battery. Other than the wax being overly applied the CCI shoots decent.

Might need to pony up and use SK ammo which has better quality control. Alibi's hurt scores and the sport is hard enough without gun malfunctions.

Sc0

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by RoyDean Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:27 pm

I have two Ruger 22/45 Mark IV's and two dedicated Marvel conversions. Aguila Super Extra SV and Eley Bullseye Pistol X function perfectly in all four (as long as they are clean).

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by WesG Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:50 pm

Sheesh. Liking my air pistol more and more ;-)

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by troystaten Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:21 am

My model 41 is a strange beast, it does not matter what ammo I feed it I rarely get any misfeeds. My revolver has no issues either.  I feed my .22's CCI SV as anything better does not increase my scores.

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by jglenn21 Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:11 am

Conversions are very spring dependent from my experience. I own two 5" Marvels and one 6". I run 8lb recoil springs in each qmd all my 1911s run 19lb mainsprings. All 3 function perfectly with aquila pistol match, sk pistol or eley bullseye. Experiment till you find what works and stick with it.

I run all 3 on colt ace magazines..


Last edited by jglenn21 on Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by 84gn Fri Apr 07, 2023 9:40 am

My Nelson on a Colt Govt lower with reduced mainspring runs flawlessly on any of the mainstream ammo. Tac 22 included.

84gn

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by Wes Lorenz Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:55 pm

Try this experiment:
1). Find an old lot of CCI (from a friend if needed) and use a micrometer to measure the OD of case and bullet.
2). Measure a new lot and observe any differences.

I did and found that the new lots are .001" larger in diameter than my old CCI lots. European ammo is .001-.0015" smaller in diameter than new CCI.
Can this contribute to FTF's - maybe depending on chamber size. Mr. Glenn is correct about knowing an using the correct combination of springs to achieve reliable feeding.

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by rich.tullo Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:42 pm

Marvel, try the reduced power spring , if that does not work try a lighter main spring, maybe #19. My Xesse's utterly hate Norma, though the Rugers I tuned loved it. Marvels are hit and miss with Les Baers. 

What Mark is the Ruger? Typically , the Mark IV is less reliable with SV than earlier models. The expensive fix for a MK IV is a Volquartsen Bolt. The Cheap fix for the MK IV is to prep the top of the firing pin to reduce the friction from the recoil spring. Some Ruger Bolts are better than others. Putting a shim on top of the locking plate where the frame meets the upper is helpful but not a fix. A shim will make the gun cleaner by keeping more gas away from the action and feed ramp. A shim also makes for a better slide to frame fit which does nothing for accuracy but helps with consistency of the action. 

If it is an older gun check the extractor and firing pin. 

With the Ruger and the Marvel if you have been running greasy ammo clean the barrel really good.
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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by rich.tullo Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:56 pm

Lee Withren has all kinds of help tips re Ruger on his website
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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by L. Boscoe Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:28 pm

thanks Rich-I dragged a patch through the ruger and the marvel and that helped 
a lot, also going to some Federal match I had helped. I think a lot is just that 22's
are not as user friendly as the center fire.  I can go hundreds of rounds with no
problems on my 45's no matter the maker

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by rich.tullo Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:09 pm

Wet Patch 3 or 4 times until its less dirty let soak , 5 to 10 minutes. 
Brush 4 to 6 times to loosen up the carbon. 
Dry patch 3 or 4 times until virtually dirt free. 

I use Hoppes or Bore Bright.
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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by -TT- Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:13 pm

A very good product for .22 barrels is BoreTech Rimfire Blend. In a dirty barrel, it foams up quite satisfyingly when agitated/brushed, and does a great job on lead and carbon. I use it maybe once or at most twice a year though, when I notice shots beginning to keyhole.
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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by L. Boscoe Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:04 pm

Ok, the problem with the Marvel is 90% those plastic mags. I got a set of the German.... metal ones, and they did the trick.  I will have a
conversation with FCW about the plastic.
The Ruger seems to be ammo related.  It likes Federal.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by james r chapman Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:59 pm

No problems with Nelson and Advantage Arms plastic mags in my Nelson.

Probably 2000 rounds.
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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by L. Boscoe Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:29 pm

must be the FCW mags?

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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

Post by DA/SA Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:28 pm

Different frames like different magazines. 

I have had my Marvel on two different frames. One only liked the GSG metal magazines, and the other only likes the plastic magazines.
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Question about 22's Empty Re: Question about 22's

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