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CMP Service Pistol Question

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Merick
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Post by mhayford45 Thu May 18, 2023 8:40 am

Would a 1911 .38 special with a Bomar rib comply with the CMP service pistol rules?

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Post by Froneck Thu May 18, 2023 9:02 am

I don't know but Adam told me the CMP removed quite a bit of the guns allowed before in the National Match (Service Pistol) probably Presidents 100 too.

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Post by SingleActionAndrew Thu May 18, 2023 9:19 am

That is an interesting question

"Any cartridge between 9x19 mm and .45 ACP is acceptable" in the 2023 rule changes document from CMP under 4.1.1 is not clear to me on this point. What makes a given cartridge between those two? Were they so specific in saying 9x19mm in attempt to disqualify the 380 auto, vs. specifying bullet diameter of .35 and greater?
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Post by DA/SA Thu May 18, 2023 9:38 am

There was a discussion on the BullseyeL Facebook page with Jim Henderson regarding a similar question a while back, but I couldn't find it. 

I don't recall the outcome though, as I don't have a .38 Spec 1911.
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Post by james r chapman Thu May 18, 2023 10:50 am

I believe the discussion boiled down to was the model 52 eligible.
I think the term “ a type designed for service or law enforcement “
Doomed the gun.

Otherwise, a 1911 in .38 spl should be good, but, only Hendo can answer satisfactorily.

https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/PistolRuleChanges.pdf?vers=030923
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Post by Jon Eulette Thu May 18, 2023 12:40 pm

Henderson said 1911 in .38 special was legal, but the 52 was not. 1911 was a service pistol and since 9mm, 38 Super and 45 are legal, why wouldn’t 38 special?
Shoot your 38 special. Ribs are legal now so use it.
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Post by Wobbley Thu May 18, 2023 5:24 pm

I’ll have to dustoff my Colt Mid Range!
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Post by robert84010 Thu May 18, 2023 5:52 pm

Wobbley wrote:I’ll have to dustoff my Colt Mid Range!
How about you update us after the slow fire stage of the NTI or P100. Yeah please do that if you think it's a winning combo.


Funny how it's the non distinguished that think it's about overcoming recoil and the distinguished know the hurdle is the four pound trigger. Don't believe me put your 22 to four pounds and go shoot a match. no practice.
If you practice all bets are off because it all about practicing with a four pound trigger but most people won't go there. Me and my buds did it and went out in short order. All of us made P100 too.


It's about the trigger. the whole sport is about the trigger.

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Post by Wobbley Thu May 18, 2023 8:04 pm

I was being facetious.
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Post by Allgoodhits Thu May 18, 2023 9:06 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Henderson said 1911 in .38 special was legal, but the 52 was not. 1911 was a service pistol and since 9mm, 38 Super and 45 are legal, why wouldn’t 38 special?
Shoot your 38 special. Ribs are legal now so use it.
Jon
Weren't 52's "issued" to active members of armed forces shooting teams? I would argue that it then was one of their "service" weapons while serving in the Armed Forces. The problem with slippery slopes, is that it is hard to stop once you start sliding downward.
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Post by SingleActionAndrew Thu May 18, 2023 9:13 pm

I feel, as a newer shooter but coming from racing where this all happened already, like we're about in the middle of the slope with the recent rule changes. But I'm new to the game and salty because I bought a fine ballgun.
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Post by Jon Eulette Thu May 18, 2023 9:14 pm

CMP Service Pistol has been a roller coaster ride since 230 gr Hardball was cast aside. The allowable guns and ammunition up and down and all around.
The slippery slope is now a slimy slope Smile
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Post by Dcforman Thu May 18, 2023 9:26 pm

In theory, a 1911 in 38 special can be service pistol legal. But it still needs to come in under the 45 oz. weight limit with a magazine. Tough with that thick barrel! Mine with a bomar is at least 3 oz over....

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Post by Olde Pilot Thu May 18, 2023 10:02 pm

52's are a development of model 39,i.e., THE State Patrol Gun, i.e., "law enforcement" heritage.

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Post by Merick Fri May 19, 2023 8:56 pm

robert84010 wrote:It's about the trigger. the whole sport is about the trigger.

Are you sure it isn't about driving? Because it seems like there is a lot of driving.

On a serious note, if a person forgot about 38s and practiced, they'd likely defeat any 38s they happened across. The number of people in the country at leg matches that have a mid range auto and are not already distinguished is likely less than 5.

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Post by robert84010 Sat May 20, 2023 11:45 am

Wobbley wrote:I was being facetious.
CMP Service Pistol Question Inconceivable-princessbride

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Post by robert84010 Sat May 20, 2023 11:47 am

Merick wrote:
robert84010 wrote:It's about the trigger. the whole sport is about the trigger.

Are you sure it isn't about driving? Because it seems like there is a lot of driving.

On a serious note, if a person forgot about 38s and practiced, they'd likely defeat any 38s they happened across. The number of people in the country at leg matches that have a mid range auto and are not already distinguished is likely less than 5.
Practice?  you mean instead of ransom resting.

Well there's a thought.

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Post by cdrt Sun May 21, 2023 10:00 am

Dcforman wrote:In theory, a 1911 in 38 special can be service pistol legal. But it still needs to come in under the 45 oz. weight limit with a magazine. Tough with that thick barrel! Mine with a bomar is at least 3 oz over....
Dave
You made me curious. I weighed my Clark Heavy Slide with magazine. It was 3/4 of an ounce over the 45 ounce limit.  Now, even if it made weight, why would I mess with it, to get the trigger pull just over 4 pounds?  Not likely.
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Post by hengehold Mon May 22, 2023 9:47 am

Merick wrote:
robert84010 wrote:It's about the trigger. the whole sport is about the trigger.

Are you sure it isn't about driving? Because it seems like there is a lot of driving.

Hilarious 😆

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Post by Dr.Bill Mon May 22, 2023 10:54 pm

Allgoodhits wrote:
Weren't 52's "issued" to active members of armed forces shooting teams? I would argue that it then was one of their "service" weapons while serving in the Armed Forces. The problem with slippery slopes, is that it is hard to stop once you start sliding downward.

Sometime in the early to mid 60's maybe?
If I remember a conversation with the AF gunsmith from way back when, I believe they were issued to team members.
Way before my time on the team!

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Post by NukeMMC Tue May 23, 2023 9:53 pm

CMP Service Pistol Question 20230512
Dcforman wrote:In theory, a 1911 in 38 special can be service pistol legal. But it still needs to come in under the 45 oz. weight limit with a magazine. Tough with that thick barrel! Mine with a bomar is at least 3 oz over....

Dave
My SA RO 9mm with the ramped Jon Eulette KKM 38super barrel and magazine is 42.5 ozs.  No rib on it but the LPA-cut adjustable sights work just fine.

Load the 38supercomp brass with a Brazos 150 LSWC and 2.8-3.0gr of Bullseye and it sure does feel smooth in TF/RF.  I never shot a 38spl 1911, so cannot compare.
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