Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
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Jack H
Jon Eulette
Chase Turner
fc60
SingleActionAndrew
bruce martindale
Ed Hall
Allgoodhits
Wobbley
bmize1
RJaquith
15 posters
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Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
I've been trying to do some searching on the value of some Factory .45 185 wadcutter, and can't seem to find anything using the search function; has it fallen out of favor and totally been supplanted by the lead reloads?
Randy
RJaquith- Posts : 70
Join date : 2023-04-10
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
I traded into 20 boxes of Fed Monarch from the 70’s. Nice clean boxes.
He couldn’t sell it at $15 a box and we traded for something worth $200.
He couldn’t sell it at $15 a box and we traded for something worth $200.
bmize1- Posts : 269
Join date : 2015-05-21
Location : AL
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Federal still load it or did a few years ago. But I never found it to be better than my reloads generally. I have some Winchesters and some Hornady. But I haven’t shot any recently.
Wobbley- Admin
- Posts : 4741
Join date : 2015-02-12
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Thanks for the quick responses - guess it's just plinkin' ammo now
RJaquith- Posts : 70
Join date : 2023-04-10
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
RandyRJaquith wrote:Thanks for the quick responses - guess it's just plinkin' ammo now
Message me quantity, brand etc. and price. I may be able to place it for you.
Allgoodhits- Posts : 892
Join date : 2017-09-17
Location : Southport, NC
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Remington is the only one I know of that is still selling those style bullets. Here's Midway's offering:
Remington Match Bullets 45 Caliber (452 Diameter) 185 Grain Full Metal Jacket Truncated Cone
(Or, are you meaning cartridges, in which case Federal Gold Medal uses them?)
Remington Match Bullets 45 Caliber (452 Diameter) 185 Grain Full Metal Jacket Truncated Cone
(Or, are you meaning cartridges, in which case Federal Gold Medal uses them?)
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
My understanding was the military stopped buying it along with use of 45 pistol. Winchester sold the whole production line to IMI who has since also discontinued it. It was good stuff but l didn’t find it better than SOME reloads. I bought some at Canton a few years ago for $20. Someone was trying to sell it this week for $45. Nope.
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Do we know if the bullets are still made? Midway says discontinued. I'd love a steady supply.Ed Hall wrote:Remington is the only one I know of that is still selling those style bullets. Here's Midway's offering:
Remington Match Bullets 45 Caliber (452 Diameter) 185 Grain Full Metal Jacket Truncated Cone
(Or, are you meaning cartridges, in which case Federal Gold Medal uses them?)
SingleActionAndrew- Admin
- Posts : 661
Join date : 2019-11-19
Location : IL, USA
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Greetings,
From a manufacturing viewpoint, the jacketed 185 Hollow Points are as accurate; or, more accurate than the older FMJWC bullets from Winchester, Remington, or Hornady.
Look at the rifle shooters. Match Ball Ammo was loaded with a 172 grain FMJ bullet. It shot okay at 600 yards. Then, Sierra was contracted to load M852 Match ammo with their 168 grain Hollow Point bullet. Accuracy was much better.
To form a full metal patch bullet is more difficult than a hollow point. The hollow point cups are draw to incredible tolerances and seating the cores and forming the points is a much more uniform process.
More accuracy thoughts.
We quizzed a top Marine shooter who got to chose what lot numbers of ammo the Marines would buy after testing. The "Big Three" would submit sample lots to the Military for testing. Some lots shot extremely well and those lots were bought up entirely.
What about the ammo the Military rejected, we asked the Marine? Well, Dave, I can assure you they do not use a bullet puller and start over. Those rejected lots end up in the civilian market.
All the 185 grain FMJWC ammo I gleaned from Military shooters shot X-ring! The same brand I bought from Gil Hebard, different lot number, shot ten-ring.
I agree with Mr. Martindale. We can load better 50 yard ammo at home.
Thanks for reading. Film at 11.
Cheers,
Dave
From a manufacturing viewpoint, the jacketed 185 Hollow Points are as accurate; or, more accurate than the older FMJWC bullets from Winchester, Remington, or Hornady.
Look at the rifle shooters. Match Ball Ammo was loaded with a 172 grain FMJ bullet. It shot okay at 600 yards. Then, Sierra was contracted to load M852 Match ammo with their 168 grain Hollow Point bullet. Accuracy was much better.
To form a full metal patch bullet is more difficult than a hollow point. The hollow point cups are draw to incredible tolerances and seating the cores and forming the points is a much more uniform process.
More accuracy thoughts.
We quizzed a top Marine shooter who got to chose what lot numbers of ammo the Marines would buy after testing. The "Big Three" would submit sample lots to the Military for testing. Some lots shot extremely well and those lots were bought up entirely.
What about the ammo the Military rejected, we asked the Marine? Well, Dave, I can assure you they do not use a bullet puller and start over. Those rejected lots end up in the civilian market.
All the 185 grain FMJWC ammo I gleaned from Military shooters shot X-ring! The same brand I bought from Gil Hebard, different lot number, shot ten-ring.
I agree with Mr. Martindale. We can load better 50 yard ammo at home.
Thanks for reading. Film at 11.
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1432
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
bruce martindale, Sa-tevp, Hawkja, lakemurrayman and shanneba like this post
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
When I shot M1A Highpower, the M118 172 Match loaded in the 1960s was pretty decent stuff. Certainly capable of 195+ at 600. By 1977, the machinery and process was just worn out and shooting at 600 with M118 172 FMJ was an experience best not repeated. Thus came the impetus for M852.fc60 wrote:Greetings,
From a manufacturing viewpoint, the jacketed 185 Hollow Points are as accurate; or, more accurate than the older FMJWC bullets from Winchester, Remington, or Hornady.
Look at the rifle shooters. Match Ball Ammo was loaded with a 172 grain FMJ bullet. It shot okay at 600 yards. Then, Sierra was contracted to load M852 Match ammo with their 168 grain Hollow Point bullet. Accuracy was much better.
Thanks for reading. Film at 11.
Cheers,
Dave
Wobbley- Admin
- Posts : 4741
Join date : 2015-02-12
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
I don't know the availability. The OP was looking for value, as I read it. The product says out of stock for 100 and 1000, but discontinued for 500. As to loading, I moved to FMJHP (Nosler/Zero) for all my match loads long ago, although I did have a recipe for the Remington bullet.SingleActionAndrew wrote:Do we know if the bullets are still made? Midway says discontinued. I'd love a steady supply.
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Which was what please? I was loading 4.6 BE but with Rem cases because the bullet is oversized slightly.
Thanks
Thanks
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Greetings,
An image from yesteryear...
Cheers,
Dave
An image from yesteryear...
Cheers,
Dave
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fc60- Posts : 1432
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
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Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Guess I'm just too out of touch - I never thought that this or Federal 45B would be worth less than $0.30 per round
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RJaquith- Posts : 70
Join date : 2023-04-10
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Does that apply to all the mil-pac (cans of military wadcutter), or just the lots that the big teams used?fc60 wrote:Greetings,
More accuracy thoughts.
We quizzed a top Marine shooter who got to chose what lot numbers of ammo the Marines would buy after testing. The "Big Three" would submit sample lots to the Military for testing. Some lots shot extremely well and those lots were bought up entirely.
What about the ammo the Military rejected, we asked the Marine? Well, Dave, I can assure you they do not use a bullet puller and start over. Those rejected lots end up in the civilian market.
All the 185 grain FMJWC ammo I gleaned from Military shooters shot X-ring! The same brand I bought from Gil Hebard, different lot number, shot ten-ring.
Cheers,
Dave
RJaquith- Posts : 70
Join date : 2023-04-10
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
If it was made as “Military” ammo (in military cases with military markings on the boxes) then there is a high probability it is nothing particularly special. Some was very special stuff but that wasn’t common. What Dave is talking about was the practice in the 60s and 70s when the Army and Marine teams really fought tooth and nail. They had the buying power to get preferential choice at the big 3. That wasn’t necessarily that they bought ALL of the best lots, but they sure didn’t buy any of the marginal lots. The rest got sold to us,
Wobbley- Admin
- Posts : 4741
Join date : 2015-02-12
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Does that mean boxes like the one I posted above, packed in USGI M2A1 ammo cans, 1000 to a can, 2 cans to a wooden crate, DODAC A482, is the good stuff, or the also-rans?
RJaquith- Posts : 70
Join date : 2023-04-10
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Randy,
You might have some luck selling these to cartridge collectors- but I have no sense of how that works or who to ask.
If these came as you describe and the provenance is known, then I think they'd be worth something- but I don't think you'll get new prices for it (I could be completely wrong here, hoss). But without knowing the kind of lot this was, I don't know that today's shooters would want to take a chance on it at a premium price. Cartridge collectors may.
Winchester did a run of wadcutter ammo somewhere in 2015-2017, if I recall correctly. One of the service teams was shooting some, and used it for the short line only. I inferred that this meant the loads weren't great at 50 yards. This load wasn't available on the shelf, so far as I know, so no idea of what price it would have been if new.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
-Chase
You might have some luck selling these to cartridge collectors- but I have no sense of how that works or who to ask.
If these came as you describe and the provenance is known, then I think they'd be worth something- but I don't think you'll get new prices for it (I could be completely wrong here, hoss). But without knowing the kind of lot this was, I don't know that today's shooters would want to take a chance on it at a premium price. Cartridge collectors may.
Winchester did a run of wadcutter ammo somewhere in 2015-2017, if I recall correctly. One of the service teams was shooting some, and used it for the short line only. I inferred that this meant the loads weren't great at 50 yards. This load wasn't available on the shelf, so far as I know, so no idea of what price it would have been if new.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
-Chase
Chase Turner- Posts : 385
Join date : 2019-11-15
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Thanks, Chase
This stuff goes back to at least the early 2000 time that I can testify to; going by box design according to the internet, it/s probably somewhere between 1962 (has child warning, but no Zip Code [1963] in the address), and the early '70s, when they switched to the white box.
Randy
This stuff goes back to at least the early 2000 time that I can testify to; going by box design according to the internet, it/s probably somewhere between 1962 (has child warning, but no Zip Code [1963] in the address), and the early '70s, when they switched to the white box.
Randy
RJaquith- Posts : 70
Join date : 2023-04-10
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
They are commercial lot packed in military can and crating. That means the lot was accepted into the military for marksmanship purposes. Likely for the military team. From the yellow box, this was made about in the mid-late 1960s maybe early 1970s. Certainly before 1972. One other thing to remember too is that there was a LOT more interest in shooting at all levels of the military until about 1968. So there was more demand from the services for match ammo including SWC. So it may have been for the AMU or Marine or AF or Navy team but it might have just been a general purchase to support the military marksmanship training program. Almost every major command back then had a shooting team… All this ended in 1968 or 1969 due to the negative reaction to the Vietnam war and the assassinations amongst other reasons.
Wobbley- Admin
- Posts : 4741
Join date : 2015-02-12
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
Greetings,RJaquith wrote:Does that mean boxes like the one I posted above, packed in USGI M2A1 ammo cans, 1000 to a can, 2 cans to a wooden crate, DODAC A482, is the good stuff, or the also-rans?
If I had a choice between Military issue or Commercial, I would buy Military.
I do not have documented sources for Military accuracy acceptance; but, I recall reading in the American Rifleman that HardBall had to group three inches, or less, for three ten shot groups at 50 yards.
I suspect there is a similar Acceptance Document issued when they purchase ammo from the Commercial suppliers.
One way to find out if it, your ammo, is any good or not is to test it.
Either find a shooter with a good gun and an expert using the Random Rest; or, someone with a barrel/ammo tester.
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1432
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
Jon Eulette- Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia
BE Mike likes this post
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
The overwhelming majority I've seen is WMA 17. Believe I have also seen WMA 15 and WMA 20, but nothing like the amount of WMA 17 in my horde.
Chase Turner- Posts : 385
Join date : 2019-11-15
Re: Does anyone still shoot factory 185 metal Case SWC?
One third of my stash. I intend to shoot them someday.
Last edited by Jack H on 7/21/2023, 1:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
Jack H- Posts : 2689
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon
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