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Scatt vs Air Pistol for Bullseye Practice

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JHHolliday
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Post by Orion Sun Sep 03, 2023 11:14 pm

I’ve been debating on whether to get a Scatt trainer or an air pistol to make dry firing exercises more dynamic. With the cost of a Scatt, seems like I might as well get a half-decent air pistol. The biggest pro for using a Scatt is continued training with what equipment I’ll use in matches. The biggest pro for using an air pistol to train is the gratification of actually firing a shot.

Looking for some feedback from those that have used either or both and what helped you the most, outside of dry-firing / training at home. Yes, I know, dry firing is the ultimate training aid in itself. Thanks!
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Post by SteveT Sun Sep 03, 2023 11:28 pm

Both And, not Either Or if your budget allows.

If your only goal is to reach your highest potential in bullseye and you will use it regularly, then a Scatt will probably provide more score improvement. But airguns are another fun and challenging discipline, so it may provide more fun and social interaction than clicking away in your basement.

Any precision shooting will provide some cross benefits to bullseye. Dry firing with or without a Scatt will provide the most direct benefit. If you are dedicated and observant you can do almost as much just dry firing as you can with a Scatt. The electronic trainer makes it more visible and gives you more time to study the trace after the fact. You can see the same pattern dry firing, but you can't look at it over again except in your memory. If nothing else the Scatt gives you a score which is more satisfying than just dryfiring but also can be a distraction.
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Post by SingleActionAndrew Sun Sep 03, 2023 11:50 pm

I shot next to Steve the other day at an air pistol match! I suggest, as a novice with no authority, the air pistol just for another excuse to get out with friends and improve by seeing performances better than your current.
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Post by Wobbley Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:26 am

Like any practice device a plan is necessary.  Work on a specific detail of your performance.  SCATT, from my admittedly limited experience, teaches good trigger control and sight alignment, but it isn’t complete.  Air gun lacks recoil.  And 45 has recoil control as a basic element.  So you have to live fire as part of your training.
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Post by Merick Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:30 am

Initial price of scatt is a tough pill to swallow (though maybe less than a lot of air pistols now days sheesh),  but after that it is dry fire with quantitative feedback of the whole shot from approach to follow through.  I would have quit or gone broke trying to learn what I have with a scatt if I tried to do it with just live ammo, but some is still required.

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Post by DA/SA Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:07 am

I was pondering the same decision a while back. 

I went with Scatt Basic, as I didn't see how an air pistol, with a completely different configuration and light trigger was going to do much for shooting my 1911. In addition, I wasn't interested in adding another discipline to my shooting, so I decided that being able to train with the same equipment that I would be shooting was the way to go.

The key to it all, in my case, is that I have 25 yards indoors in which to use it, so I am training on an actual B16 target and not using reduced targets at a short distance. That may or may not make a difference but I believe that it does. 

I admit that I don't use it nearly as often as I should, especially this time of year, because I find that it works best in low ambient light with bright illumination of the target. The only way I can do that is to close up the non air conditioned building, and it's definitely Summer here in FL, so it's not too comfortable. It is quite nice though on rainy evenings, or during the Winter evenings when it is cooler. The first Scatt I tried was a friends that was on his laptop computer, and we were at an outdoor range, so it does work outdoors, but I have not used mine outdoors as I have it on my Desktop PC. 

I got to where I used it as I would with live fire. Lots of blank wall dry fire, and then ten or twenty shots with Scatt for a reality check.

One thing I like with Scatt is the ability to dry fire on a target with the benefit to verify shot calling. It will definitely help in that regard. You will quickly find that what you think you are doing/seeing isn't always what you are actually doing!

And yes, I agree that Scatt doesn't really show you anything that you can't see by just paying attention to the dot or front sight, but it will show you that you were not paying as much attention as you thought you were!

I am glad that this thread came up, because it reminded me that I need to get back to using it more!
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Post by Foundryratjim Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:19 am

I have had good luck practicing with with a Beeman P1 pistol.

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Post by sbtzc Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:32 pm

Mantis X
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Post by PhotoEscape Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:50 pm

Leaving aside MONEY and taking to account that what you read next is strictly my opinion and my personal experience: - combination of SCATT and high quality air pistol with electronic trigger offers quite a comprehensive training routines.  Anything from practicing hold to trigger pull to rapid fire can be accomplished.  Complement the above with attachment for mounting sensor on 45, and you have all you need for practicing higher weight trigger pull too.  I see no value at combining SCATT with actual firing of air pistol.  Other than fan it actually would be a distraction from training of particular elements, IMO.

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Post by JHHolliday Mon Sep 04, 2023 4:06 pm

Though I've never used SCATT, I have been shooting an air pistol for a few years and IMO there are pro's and con's:

Pros

1. AP is a kind of "live fire", and is more fun than dry fire (at least for me: fun training = more training)
2. Quiet enough to shoot indoors at home, and outdoors if your neighbors are cool or far
3. Ammo cost is near zero
4. Can be accurate at longer distances than standard 10M (see below)

Cons

1. The better ones are expensive
2. You will need air tank setup for a PCP air pistol (though many use CO2 powered or single pump pneumatic very well)
3. Grip angle and trigger are not analogous to most pistols: The highest my AP's trigger will go is about 1#

Here is my FWB P44, during a session yesterday in our "lower 40" (where our BBQ is)

https://postimg.cc/75jg8yj5

Here is a target set up at 20yd, and the FWB is still very accurate at this distance.  The Glowshot targets aren't official but give good feedback and help calling shots

https://postimg.cc/2V9z5jkS
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Post by saleen322 Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:14 am

While they are both helpful, I think you get more from the air pistol. We have a LP-10 and it is about as accurate as anything you will shoot. Also air pistol teaches follow through better than anything out there. If you can shoot good scores on an air pistol, you can shoot BE well.

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Post by Arthur Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:48 pm

The top guys, P100 NTI winners, I have known that shoot Highpower all use a trainer. They might shoot a winter league with a .22, but no airguns. It's just one of the tools they consider pretty much standard. 

Good luck. 
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Post by Orion Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:30 pm

Do HM shooters use trainers like the Scatt system?
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Post by Wobbley Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:57 am

I know in rifle some do.  Usually they’re working on trigger control.
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Post by Ed Hall Fri Sep 08, 2023 8:41 am

Orion wrote:Do HM shooters use trainers like the Scatt system?
I used mine (Rika) until I learned to actually "see" what was happening as the shot unfolded.  In fact, the trainer helped me learn that and it's what I tied to teach when coaching its use.  After that, it still had some use in aggregate trends, but learning to see the process unfold in real time was my biggest gain.

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Post by hammerli Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:35 am

I am an older shooter and I recall my days when great shooter like Don Nygord and Doc Young were winning medals. These guys and even Eric Buljung and The Legendry T D Smith got there without trainers nut with hard work and dedication. Can the rest of us also get there with an Airpistol and Dry firing?

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