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Identify this pistol?

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Post by croesler 11/21/2023, 1:23 pm

Appears to be an AMU .22 pistol.  This came from a video by Adam Sokolowski.  Interested to learn more about it, opinions, cost, performance vs. Pardini/GSP and Marvel Type 1 or Nelson Conversions, who makes it, etc.
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Post by JRV 11/21/2023, 1:41 pm

Is that a 208S with a 1911 grip adapter and an optic mount?

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Post by croesler 11/21/2023, 2:03 pm

Could be!  It certainly doesn't look like any Hammerli I ever saw, but looking at the bones only, maybe so.  Lets see what others have to say?  I was under the impression 208 and 215 parts were no longer available, so interesting the AMU would be using a gun with no spares.  If thats what it is.
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Post by chiz1180 11/21/2023, 2:27 pm

208s, see thread on frankenhammerli’s
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Post by Froneck 11/21/2023, 2:58 pm

Yes that is a FrankenHammerli, AMU Modified 208. Adam and most of the top shooters in the AMU used it. Some had the Knapp type scope mount. Quite a few of them were re-barrelled too, probably the one in the photo was re-barrelled. They were modified to fit the 1911 type grips.

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Post by Cmysix 11/21/2023, 5:15 pm

croesler wrote:Could be!  It certainly doesn't look like any Hammerli I ever saw, but looking at the bones only, maybe so.  Lets see what others have to say?  I was under the impression 208 and 215 parts were no longer available, so interesting the AMU would be using a gun with no spares.  If thats what it is.


Don't need no stinking parts, they have a machine shop and machinists
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Post by Tim:H11 11/21/2023, 5:18 pm

It’s a Hammerli 208s, CMM grip adapter, aftermarket barrel done in house to accept the optic and iron sight rails we use that are also custom and done in house. Optic is an Aimpoint 9000SC 2MOA.
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Post by Rush223 11/21/2023, 6:00 pm

The knob on the back of the slide is the safety. The safety, trigger guard and side of the slide looks like my 208S.

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Post by croesler 11/22/2023, 9:23 am

Thanks to everyone who replied!  Very intriguing.
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Post by Tim:H11 11/24/2023, 10:16 pm

So here's my $0.02 on the whole thing.. just because I'm bored right now and realized no one really addressed the other portion of the original post's question(s). We mentioned the gun but not the other options...

The Hammerli 208 type pistols are great guns. And they can be made to be fantastic. But they are costly and a risky investment if you ask me. Aside from the gun being expensive for starters, parts are hard to find. If you can find parts, they are expensive because of the small quantities that are available. And those numbers are dwindling. Unless you have the funds to go this route I don't advise it. There are other pistol options that are just as accurate and reliable for less and the maintenance situation is far more realistic.

Why does the AMU choose this gun then? How do they combat these issues? The AMU has a Custom Firearms Shop. The shop is divided into sections. Each section is dedicated to a shooting team within the unit. So the Service Pistol team has a dedicated crew of gunsmiths who's role is building, and maintaining the Service Pistol team's guns. They can afford to keep these old Hammerli's in use because they can make parts or have parts made elsewhere or they have sourced an ample supply of parts long ago to keep these guns running years into the future. This is not the everyday situation most civilians find themselves in. If you find your Hammerli's slide is cracked tomorrow, tell me, what will you do?

The Pardini is a fine option. But some have commented on how changing from an international style grip to a 1911 angled grip is a hard switch to make during a match. It sort of stirs with the mental game is one thing I hear. I find sometimes the weight of the gun plus an optic can be forward heavy depending on it's setup. But these are preference things. Not deal breakers by any means. Just things to think about. The gun is accurate. And provided the right ammo and spring they are reliable. 

The AW93 is sort of like the Pardini in the sense of the grip but there is a CMM grip adapter for it like the Hammerli. So grip angle does not have to be an issue. Sadly, mounting an optic to this gun is it's primary draw back. Your options are limited to a micro unless you get brave and have a machinist help you make a specialized system for a full length rail. Balance isn't as off to me as the Pardini is. And again springs and ammo as with any rimfire will be a necessary investigation when you first start. 

The Nelson or Marvel conversions are great idea's in my own opinion. They provide an ability to train on the 1911 frame without the expenditure of primers or costly bullets. This is an important thing to think about because two thirds of this game is shot on a 1911 by most shooters. Some do have dedicated center fire guns but for the most part we're nearly all shooting double 45. Parts are readily available from many sources for a 1911 and gunsmiths that can work on one are more common than a gunsmith that can work on a European gun. I've seen stock conversion barrels shoot very well, and I've seen stock conversion barrels that have been relined because they didn't shoot so well and afterwards were extremely accurate. Reliability comes down to time spent making sure you have the right springs for the velocity of the ammunition you choose to shoot. 

A Ruger MK "what ever" can be a great option provided the trigger was reworked and the barrel (possibly) replaced or relined. A S&W Model 41 can be a formidable gun too provided it's been gone over for reliability sake, trigger work, and accuracy tested. These are things most every gun will need examined however. Some guns need more work than others. Some guns are good to go and some just need a good trigger and you're off to the races. 

I say this to someone looking for advice when selecting a .22 pistol. Is it currently or recently in production? My main concern first is if the parts are readily available and if there are gunsmiths around that can work on it. Bullseye guns get dry fired a lot. They get shot a lot. The need to be maintained. Next I look at the accuracy of the gun. Can it be rebarreled if need be or relined? I don't care so much about the accuracy of the gun if I can maintain the firearm. If I'm going to invest in a gun I want it to last. If the gun has support available for it and it is or can be made to be accurate and reliable then it's a good fit so long as it's affordable. What is affordable will be different for all of us. Perhaps this means you're starting off on a Ruger. Or maybe you're going to jump in all together and buy a Pardini. It doesn't matter to me. It only maters that you are comfortable with your purchase, and you can use the equipment to progressively get better and compete on a level that pleases you. Truth be told most of the guns we look at or suggest wether it's me or someone else will be a fine option. They all have their ups and downs and they can all be made to be excellent target shooting arms. 

Okay now I can go to bed I suppose..
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Post by croesler 11/25/2023, 6:41 am

Wow, and a super big thanks to Tim:11 for the most complete reply and explanation, plus input from a High Master, in the history of the Forum!  Amazing information here! Thank you!
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Post by rich.tullo 11/27/2023, 7:36 pm

croesler wrote:Wow, and a super big thanks to Tim:11 for the most complete reply and explanation, plus input from a High Master, in the history of the Forum!  Amazing information here! Thank you!
I like the new Hammerli Xesse SF. Get the one with the black slide and the dovetail for the scope. Hammerli makes a weaver mount that is a little pricey but it works well although you have to take everything off to felid strip, that does not concern me too much because I use a Patch Worm to clean the barrel every 500 rounds or so.
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Post by Froneck 11/29/2023, 5:58 pm

Simply put the AMU has every gun made, they test them to see which one is the best! Also it's the shooter that can select the gun he wants to shoot. Being they are using Hammeli's says a lot about the gun. I understand most don't have a team of gunsmiths that actually travel with them to matches but most don't shoot as often as the AMU shooters so when a 208s is worked on by a competent smith it will last quite a while.

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Post by croesler 11/30/2023, 8:19 am

Curious what the AMU thinks of Pardini's theyve tested, both .22 and the GT45? There are lot of users within Bullseye (for .22 anyway), but not with AMU team that I've seen?
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