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Other brand 1911

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Post by Arthur 12/29/2023, 5:35 pm

New thread, not to hijack the Sig thread.


I'm sure that they can, but if you ask any of the serious Bullseye gunsmiths their opinion I am very sure that they will not advise you to buy a SIG (or a Kimber, or current production Colt, or RIA, etc.)." Quoting RoyDean. Hope you don't mind.  


What specifically is wrong with Kimber, Dan Wesson, and other US made popular brands? My experience with a 2018 Colt Gold Cup was disappointing. Loose slide to frame, off center firing pin, poor accuracy, good trigger. My Springfield R.O. was accurate with a terrible factory trigger. Both guns now have new barrels, bushings, triggers, and are a real pleasure to shoot. 


Do other brands have soft steel, holes in the wrong place? I was recently looking at a fixed sight Kimber service / duty type that I thought would be nice to own. But, if they are not worth upgrading at some point I'm not interested. If Springfield is the only choice, I would like to better understand why. 


Thanks in advance. 


Best, 
Arthur 

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Post by Pinetree 12/29/2023, 7:14 pm

I've been shooting my Kimber Classic Gold Match for years and it's accurate and reliable.

Of course, it has a Kart barrel and bushing, Wilson extended slide release, Trigger, Hammer, Clark main spring, Wolff recoil and firing pin springs, Wilson magazines, Herrett Nationals stocks,  a Weigand scope mount with a Matchdot, and the local gunsmith beat on it with a hammer..

So now it's pretty much a Kimber in name only.

The best shooter on our team uses a Colt that's over 100 years old..


Sometimes it's not the gun...
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Post by chiz1180 12/29/2023, 7:43 pm

I believe the biggest benefit of the Springfield was the value for money. I have seen tons of good shooting with a Springfield RO with a basic trigger job. Conversely I have also seen "stock" branded guns that have had every part replaced plus additional work that would have made more sense to start from square one rather than throwing away all the stock parts. 

That said here are some things that I would avoid in off the shelf 1911s:
-Series 80 type ignition groups
-Novak rear sight cut, if you would want adjustable sights in the future.
-Fiber optic front sights
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Post by LenV 12/29/2023, 9:21 pm

I've had great results from my two Kimbers. I own a Gold Match ll in 40s&w. Which I turned into neat 38 Super. Shown is a 50yd group with an inexpensive Sig barrel and a 25yd group. Both from a sand bag. My other Kimber is Target Match in 45 acp. It didn't need anything to outshoot me.Other brand 1911 20231219Other brand 1911 20231218
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Post by BE Mike 12/30/2023, 11:11 am

The Springfield Armory 1911's have forged slides and frames, as I believe Colts still may have. Some pistolsmiths consider it an advantage. As previously stated, the SA pistols have "series 70" type triggers, too. They are considered easier to get a good trigger job by some.
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Post by Arthur 12/30/2023, 6:20 pm

Thanks to everyone for the input. 

Best, 
Arthur

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Post by rich.tullo 12/30/2023, 6:34 pm

Because if you are shooting a lot of matches, you can put 10,000 rounds a year down the pipe with out much of a problem. So a forged frame will hold up better than a Stainless Steel Frame unless it is an Accuracy X. 

A forged frame will hold up better than and cast frame but Caspian's are cast and I had a Madore built on a Caspian and I wish I still had that gun. 

I have a SRO and they are good out the box enough to get you to expert if you replace the bushing. I have a Kart on mine , I replaced all the parts and it shoot 10x on the short line and hold the ten ring on the long line. 

As a donor gun if I was starting over I would definitely consider a TISA's over the Kimber.
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Post by jglenn21 12/31/2023, 5:33 am

For $320 the Tisas is  a heck of a deal. Forged frame and slide and all non mim parts internally.  You can't buy a frame and slide for those prices..for a mil spec pistol the frame.slide fit will surprise you..
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Post by RoyDean 12/31/2023, 6:10 am

When I first got into Bullseye, 5 or so years ago, I had several SIG 1911's and a couple of STI's. The SIG 1911 45 shot quite well, but I was still dumb enough to be using mostly factory "white box" 230 ammo at the time, so not really a definitive benchmark. The 1911 that produced the best groups for me (with regular factory ammo) at the time was an STI Range Master in 38 Super, but, as I quickly learned, because of the bull barrel and extended shroud, it was not "CMP Legal" for Service Pistol at that time. I sold it on to some lucky guy (up in WA if I recall), wish that I had kept it now!

I was very fortunate to be located in Oregon and got a huge amount of guidance from Oregon's Mr. Bullseye, Roddy Toyota. He then did a modest upgrade to a newly bought SARO and the results were plainly obvious. That gun got me to Master inside two seasons. I would never have considered a SARO had it not been for Roddy's sage advice.

Since then I have tried almost all of the top guns (in a futile effort to "buy" points), but, if truth be told, I have not significantly improved my match scores even with the very best full custom guns. 

I put a lot of rounds though that original Roddy SARO, so I had it totally rebuilt with new barrel, etc. It is again an absolutely superb wad gun. I often shoot it during the same period as also shooting a "full custom" gun built by the same top gunsmith. Very hard to say which shoots better, for me.

The big advantage of starting with a SARO is that a moderately skilled amateur or a top gunsmith can typically upgrade it to a high level relatively quickly and for a reasonable total cost. Time is probably most important in this case - order a new frame "in the white" and the cost all of the parts will not add up to hugely more than a full rebuild SARO, but good gunsmiths are usually really busy and bluing new frames takes more time.

Having tried a TISAS 1911 A1 in 45ACP as a potential "As Issued" gun for Perry - as have several other good shooters I know - it seems that they are surprisingly well made. I was then able to buy a couple of complete TISAS "lowers" off eBay for a reasonable price - I intend to dedicate them to Marvel conversions - unfortunately I am usually away over the winter and they are sitting patiently with a gunsmith pal. We shall see!

If I wanted to "dabble" with a Bullseye build and needed to keep the cost down, currently, I would buy a TISAS 45ACP A1, put a scope rail and a modest red dot on it and try to improve the trigger. Use some grip tape on the front strap, change to Sharkskin grip plates. Shoot the hell out of it first with decent "Bullseye" ammo and see how it performs. You might be surprised!

IMHO - YMMV!!!!!

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Post by Sc0 12/31/2023, 1:28 pm

Had an older Taurus 1911, frame and slide were forged but the frame pin holes started to peen around the edges of the frame and develop raised metal around them. Passed it on, mainly because the contour of the frame made it feel like a 2x4.

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Post by SW-52 12/31/2023, 2:17 pm

Tisas?? Hmmm, sounds good to purchase one to convert in a dedicated lower for a Marvel.
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Post by Allen Barnett 12/31/2023, 2:50 pm

I bought a new Tisas just for using in the "as issued" match. I was impressed with the quality of fit for a rack grade gun and the price was definitely right when comparing it against a CMP gun for nearly triple the price!

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