CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
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Merick
cdrt
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CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
CMP released the 2024 rule books. Only minor changes to Pistol.
The latest Rule books can be found here
https://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-competitions-rulebooks/
Changes in CMP 2024 Pistol Competition Rules
- 2.5.2 a). Distinguished Marksman EIC credit point administration rules were added here and in rules 8.3.8 and 9.4.1.
- 3.2.3 & 3.2.4. New descriptions of the Chief Statistical Officer and Score Challenge Officer are being included in all rulebooks.
- 3.2.6. New language in the Scorer rule clarifies that Scorers (usually competitors in Pistol) must make all initial scoring decisions.
- 3.4.4 & 3.4.5. Rules regarding competitor behavior are added in all rulebooks.
- 3.6.2. Hearing protection cannot be used to listen to music while on the firing line.
- 3.6.7. A new rule clarifies who is authorized to be on the firing line.
- 3.10.2. Scoring procedures are clarified.
- 3.10.10 d). Clarifies that shots not fired in accordance with the Match Program must be scored as misses.
- 3.12.3, Table 2. Pistol Achievement Pin cut scores were revised upward, based on 2023 National Matches results.
- 3.14 & 3.15. Responsible authorities for protest and disciplinary actions are updated to reflect current CMP organization.
- 4.5.2. Spotting scope cameras that transmit images to other hand-held devices are illegal.
- 6.6.1. A simplified procedure for resolving electronic target score protests that occur during timed or rapid-fire series was added.
- 8.3.2. The prohibition against combining Pistol EIC Matches with non-EIC Matches will continue but match sponsors will be allowed to conduct combined Pistol EIC Matches where competitors in more than one Pistol EIC event fire at the same time.
The latest Rule books can be found here
https://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-competitions-rulebooks/
chiz1180- Posts : 1461
Join date : 2019-05-29
Location : Ohio
Sc0, dieselguy624, SingleActionAndrew, Single_handed and mdatlanta like this post
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
- "4.5.2. Spotting scope cameras that transmit images to other hand-held devices are illegal."
Interesting, but wonder why this rule? Many of our "Aged Eyes" benefit from this up close and personal imagery.
jwax- Posts : 574
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Western ny
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
They're still scoring late shots differently than the NRA. That just causes confusion.
cdrt- Posts : 837
Join date : 2016-04-12
Location : Amarillo, Texas
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
From a match directing perspective when you have say 2-3 competitors with late shots, the CMP rule is easier to execute, if the shot is there score it and move on. With the NRA rule with multiple late shots you have the potential for multiple disagreements on " late but scoreable" shots. It has been my experience that if some some one shoots a late shot, most of the time it is a miss anyways.cdrt wrote:They're still scoring late shots differently than the NRA. That just causes confusion.
chiz1180- Posts : 1461
Join date : 2019-05-29
Location : Ohio
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
jwax wrote:
- "4.5.2. Spotting scope cameras that transmit images to other hand-held devices are illegal."
Interesting, but wonder why this rule? Many of our "Aged Eyes" benefit from this up close and personal imagery.
I have dabbled with making my own target camera out of junk, and it is a lot nicer to look at a tablet than a spotting scope.
However my hypothesis is the transmission part is the problem that they are trying to address. The legend is at some point at camp perry a 2-3 person "team" of knaves worked to elevate the group leader. A wing man would fire a no wind zero shot before the leader so he could make perfect wind calls for himself. They had to be close to each other for that to work so the firing point assignments were randomized, but if they had wifi between them now they could be anywhere on the line.
A camera hard wired to a basic monitor that could not transmit, instead of a tablet computer that can do anything, would still be legal I would think, though I would expect it to be challenged.
Or it could be the spotting scope sales lobby is more powerful than we thought.
Merick- Posts : 447
Join date : 2015-08-13
Location : Kansas
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
So:
Still no 22 Only Classification. This choice distorts your real classification.
Still no Revolver Only category. Why use a wheelgun if you can't potentially be recognized for it?
Still no Short Course Registration to help keep those records separate. Just a complete fail from CMP.
I'll stop making my case to the CMP on these, even though they are easy wins, low hanging fruit, and should not discourage new shooters from taking up the sport. Quite the converse, really.
Way to go Christina and Jim. Great job.
-Chase
Still no 22 Only Classification. This choice distorts your real classification.
Still no Revolver Only category. Why use a wheelgun if you can't potentially be recognized for it?
Still no Short Course Registration to help keep those records separate. Just a complete fail from CMP.
I'll stop making my case to the CMP on these, even though they are easy wins, low hanging fruit, and should not discourage new shooters from taking up the sport. Quite the converse, really.
Way to go Christina and Jim. Great job.
-Chase
Chase Turner- Posts : 385
Join date : 2019-11-15
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
Failing to implement the rules you want does not constitute a "complete fail".
Why not separate 45, 9mm, 38 and 32 classifications? why not separate age group classifications? why not "stock" vs "match" gun classification? why not separate ball vs wad classifications? Where does it end? They have to draw the line somewhere.
If you can get enough people to ask the CMP, I am pretty sure they will respond. Personally, I think they are doing a better job than the NRA has, so while it may not be a "complete win" it's closer to that than a fail.
Why not separate 45, 9mm, 38 and 32 classifications? why not separate age group classifications? why not "stock" vs "match" gun classification? why not separate ball vs wad classifications? Where does it end? They have to draw the line somewhere.
If you can get enough people to ask the CMP, I am pretty sure they will respond. Personally, I think they are doing a better job than the NRA has, so while it may not be a "complete win" it's closer to that than a fail.
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
I'm sorry you feel the way you do, Steve. I disagree with your myopia and incomplete comprehension of what I, and others who have shared similar concerns with the CMP, are after.
Never said CMP isn't doing better than the NRA. But, there is room for improvement and the CMP has been approached about these suggested changes by more than just me.
I bet if the AMU asked for these changes, it'd be implemented ASAP.
Never said CMP isn't doing better than the NRA. But, there is room for improvement and the CMP has been approached about these suggested changes by more than just me.
I bet if the AMU asked for these changes, it'd be implemented ASAP.
Chase Turner- Posts : 385
Join date : 2019-11-15
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
First off, as a shooter, I like the idea of breaking down classifications in more ways. I liked it when the NRA implemented 22 only and open sights classes. In my personal score tracking spreadsheet I keep track of the caliber, gun, dot/open sights, ammo, range etc so I can look at my scores based on any of those factors.Chase Turner wrote:I'm sorry you feel the way you do, Steve. I disagree with your myopia and incomplete comprehension of what I, and others who have shared similar concerns with the CMP, are after.
My concern is about the complications that it would cause for match directors and the CMP. Adding an additional class in the computer tracking SW is easy. Score cards will need to be updated which would be an additional cost and if someone else wants to add another class in a year or two the score cards would need to be updated again and you would end up with a lot of different classes listed that inevitably some people sould check the wrong box, or check multiple boxes. Local match directors would need to track and enter them. The CMP staff need to enter them and manually check when the optical scanner can't make it out. How will the class be verified? Does the scorer have to sign off that the shooter shot what he claims? Is it just shooter self reporting? For sure this would mean more calls to the CMP to correct classes reported wrong. It also opens up the possibility for shooters to sangbag and cheat. If I shoot a good score but don't want to get moved up to a higher classification I could call to "correct" the score to 22 only. On the other hand if I really want to get a Master or High Master card I could shoot 22 only and then call to claim it goes to my regular classification. I don't think this would be a big problem, but some people would be suspicious.
I expect you are right on that.Chase Turner wrote:I bet if the AMU asked for these changes, it'd be implemented ASAP.
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
As a shooter, breaking classifications down further weakens the competition at a match, How many matches are held that don't have full competitive classes (for the sake of argument 4-5 shooters per class)? What if you only have one person show up that wants to shoot in a special class (say purple hat orange shoes class) do you recognize that sole shooter or do you put them in to another class? From the perspective of running a match the more special categories you add the less "special" they become and they have a participation trophy vibe. Not to mention they add additional work both on the front end and back end of the match.SteveT wrote:First off, as a shooter, I like the idea of breaking down classifications in more ways. I liked it when the NRA implemented 22 only and open sights classes. In my personal score tracking spreadsheet I keep track of the caliber, gun, dot/open sights, ammo, range etc so I can look at my scores based on any of those factors.Chase Turner wrote:I'm sorry you feel the way you do, Steve. I disagree with your myopia and incomplete comprehension of what I, and others who have shared similar concerns with the CMP, are after.
The CMP has 7 discrete rule books, I am sure participants in other disciplines have similar minor complaints. I would bet the "low hanging fruit" is probably much more work that many would like to realize.
As far as the AMU getting special treatment, a handful at Perry last year would likely disagree.
chiz1180- Posts : 1461
Join date : 2019-05-29
Location : Ohio
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
chiz1180 wrote:As a shooter, breaking classifications down further weakens the competition at a match, How many matches are held that don't have full competitive classes (for the sake of argument 4-5 shooters per class)? What if you only have one person show up that wants to shoot in a special class (say purple hat orange shoes class) do you recognize that sole shooter or do you put them in to another class? From the perspective of running a match the more special categories you add the less "special" they become and they have a participation trophy vibe. Not to mention they add additional work both on the front end and back end of the match.SteveT wrote:First off, as a shooter, I like the idea of breaking down classifications in more ways. I liked it when the NRA implemented 22 only and open sights classes. In my personal score tracking spreadsheet I keep track of the caliber, gun, dot/open sights, ammo, range etc so I can look at my scores based on any of those factors.Chase Turner wrote:I'm sorry you feel the way you do, Steve. I disagree with your myopia and incomplete comprehension of what I, and others who have shared similar concerns with the CMP, are after.
The CMP has 7 discrete rule books, I am sure participants in other disciplines have similar minor complaints. I would bet the "low hanging fruit" is probably much more work that many would like to realize.
As far as the AMU getting special treatment, a handful at Perry last year would likely disagree.
So, let me use a concrete examples here. Let's talk about the short course.
I think we all can agree that major golf tournaments should be held on major 18 hole courses with varying number of pars per hole, vs say having the PGA championship on a par 3 nine hole course. It's no different than the conception we have for a regular course versus the short course. The records should be maintained separately, because while both the standard and short course are in fact bullseye, the results should be kept separate since they aren't fired at the same distances (Augusta National v. 3 par nine hole course).
Now, I can absolutely get a match sanctioned and recorded by CMP that uses the short course targets- that's totally legal. Would you be OK with a 2685 being shot on a short course and taking the record from Herschel? No, you wouldn't. But at the moment, you'd have no way to know on what type of course the 2685 was shot on. (Or use the highest short course value and compare it to standard course, the outcome is the same.)
Next example: 22 Only Classification.
Same sort of thinking as the above. Is there anything wrong with shooting 22 Only for all 3 matches in a 2700? Nope, not at all.
But at Perry, no one thinks that the 22 Only can be the overall winner, were they to shoot the highest score. So if we don't think that is the case there, and we don't think it at local matches, why is it then that I can pad my scores with 22 Only and push my classification to high master if I wanted to? I wouldn't be a "real" high master, except that it seems like I can actually do this today. I should be able to pursue shooting 22 only for a bit (injury, can't reload, whatever) without such potentially inflating my class, and comparing my results with others who shot the game the same way.
This doesn't even get to the indoor/outdoor and league stuff, but probably riffs on it somewhat similarly.
Anyway, you get the point. I'm sorry you guys have your minds made up, but I'll quit pissing in your ear.
Chase Turner- Posts : 385
Join date : 2019-11-15
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
Chase,Chase Turner wrote:I'm sorry you feel the way you do, Steve. I disagree with your myopia and incomplete comprehension of what I, and others who have shared similar concerns with the CMP, are after.
Never said CMP isn't doing better than the NRA. But, there is room for improvement and the CMP has been approached about these suggested changes by more than just me.
I bet if the AMU asked for these changes, it'd be implemented ASAP.
Sorry to hear you have such low regard for the NRA. However, regarding your efforts to get CMP to recognize ".22 only" and "25yd.Records", you may be interested in knowing that the NRA already recognizes BOTH of these!
As an NRA Referee, I have officiated over the National Championships in five competitive disciplines. I also refereed CMP matches at Camp Perry during the National Matches before CMP decided "they knew better" and chose to eliminate referees from their match officials.
I agree that Henderson is doing a great job and CMP is fortunate to have such a person with his wealth of knowledge. However, Jim and everybody else continues to learn incrementally about our sport and how to make it better and FAIRER for all competitors. Some of the fine-tuning you suggest wouldn't really make things "fairer" at least in my opinion. There is a realistic limit to which the Rules should be taken.
In High Power, should we have separate Classes for .308 vs 6mm vs 6BR vs .284 vs ... The obvious answer should be NO! There may be some competitions with specific caliber, e.g., Palma must use .308 or .223. There are even limits on bullet weight.
Let's make our competitions FAIR and FUN! Let's not over-complicate our sport.
Mike
Mike
mbmshooter- Posts : 248
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Prescott, Arizona
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
Does the CMP even maintain or acknowledge any form of records for Bullseye Pistol or any Hipower Rifle events? I've never heard of any unless one counts their very unique games matches.
-Ron
-Ron
r_zerr- Posts : 180
Join date : 2014-12-15
Location : Tucson, AZ
Re: CMP 2024 Rule Book updates avalible
Ron,r_zerr wrote:Does the CMP even maintain or acknowledge any form of records for Bullseye Pistol or any Hipower Rifle events? I've never heard of any unless one counts their very unique games matches.
-Ron
From what I saw on the CMP website it would appear they are just in the beginning stages of developing records for these disciplines. As for the level of "fine-tuning" within each discipline, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Mike
mbmshooter- Posts : 248
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Prescott, Arizona
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