Garmin Xero C1

I recently purchased a Garmin Xero C1 Chronograph and tried it out.  I have also had a LabRadar  for several years.  This is my experience.

The Garmin is much easier to set up and use.  It is small enough to carry in a range bag and since it comes with a tiny tripod, I could set it on a bench and shoot over the top of it.  There is a stated separation distance between the Garmin which I adhered to.

By contrast the LabRadar is much larger and requires a reasonable mount to hold it up.  I often used a large camera tripod to support it.  So ease of use goes to the Garmin.  I also found the LabRadar to eat up batteries.

The LabRadar has an acoustic trigger so you can use it on a range, and it will trigger on your rounds.  The Garmin triggers on any bullet it finds in its field of view.  In a public range with shooters in the next lane it would pick up their bullets too.  Two lanes or separation seemed to be OK.  Since the velocity of most range guns is higher than Bullseye loads, the strangers were easy to edit out.

The LabRadar uses an SD chip to store data in a format that can be opened with excel.  So, analysis is easy on a PC.  The Garmin has a phone App that allows data to be sent by e-mail to yourself for analysis.  Once again, the file can be opened by excel.

Several years ago, I was trying to learn to use a Ransom rest.  At that time, I had the LabRadar set up next to the Ransom and recorded velocity over many trials.  I was using Atlanta Elite 45ACP 185 gr JHP as a reference round.  Over that project, I captured the velocity from 74 rounds.  The grand average of all trials was 805 FPS with a StdDev of 20 FPS.  Atlanta claims 800 FPS, which I think is good agreement.

I still had some Altanta in my safe and shot 14 rounds over the Garmin.  It gave an average of 727 FPS and a StdDev of 51 FPS which is not as good as the LabRadar.

The LabRadar trials were on a 50 yd outdoor range.  The Garmin was in a 25 yd indoor range.  Maybe, I don't know how to use the Garmin yet, or maybe the difference in ranges makes a difference.

Greetings,

Hmmm, a rather large difference in velocity with the Garmin vs LabRadar.

I suspect you will try again with the LabRadar on one side and the Garmin on the other and clock the same rounds with both devices?

I like your write up of the tests performed.

To me, it appears the Xero is using Doppler to trigger the chronograph. The LabRadar will also do this; but, you are warned that Vo will be where the bullet enters the units field of view, which will be several feet downrange.

Chronographs are great tools for load development. As long as they offer accurate and consistent results.

Keep up the good work! I look forward to your upcoming range reports.

Cheers,

Dave

My impression is that the Labradar interpolates the MV based on the data it picks up downrange. This is not difficult since projectile trajectory is most likely a smooth curve. However, for accuracy it does require, I would say, four or five good downrange data points. The Garmin does not report downrange velocities, so I'm not sure how the MV is obtained. It would not surprise me if it was a more advanced Doppler system. They make a rear-facing radar that alerts a cyclist to an approaching vehicle. Even with a pack of riders behind the bicycle it can differentiate an oncoming vehicle. It's a pretty cool (and reliable) device.

Interesting. Is the Garmin unit compatible with Mac/ Apple?

BE Mike wrote:Interesting. Is the Garmin unit compatible with Mac/ Apple?

I have one and their app on my android phone. I believe the app will will work on an I-phone. The data is viewable in the app and can be exported as a .csv file.

SonOfSwede wrote:

A. - The Garmin triggers on any bullet it finds in its field of view.  In a public range with shooters in the next lane it would pick up their bullets too.  Two lanes or separation seemed to be OK.  Since the velocity of most range guns is higher than Bullseye loads, the strangers were easy to edit out.

B. -  The Garmin was in a 25 yd indoor range.  Maybe, I don't know how to use the Garmin yet, or maybe the difference in ranges makes a difference.

A- I am inclined to call BS on this. I have used mine with shooters all around and as long as they did not cross fire onto my target, No stray shots have been picked up. 

B. - Garmin instructions say 20 yards minimum and your deviation from the device matters.  To get readings at 25 yards I make sure and raise the Garmin to the top of my shooting box and keep the muzzle within 10-15" of the device.  If you have it on the bench and are way up over it it may not pick up some of the early data points and lead you to believe it started slower than it did.  When I do this, all of my speed checks with other chronos have been within a few fps.

Jeff,

At the risk of starting a pissing (BS) contest, I wrote what I observed.

I clearly picked up the gun in the adjacent lane every time it was fired.  I did not pick up a gun from two lanes away.
Perhaps the lanes in your range are wider than where I was.

As for the distance between the gun and the Garmin.  My Garmin says 5"-15" between the gun and the head.  It is clearly shown on the display prior to starting a sting.  I indicated in the second paragraph of my initial post that Garmin had a required separation that I adhered to.   I was sitting on a stool to get the correct separation.

Perhaps you should not call BS when you are making assumptions.

I have good luck with mine sitting on the bench anywhere near where I am shooting. It has yet to pick up a neighbor's shot. My range only goes to 22 yds, and the Garmin picks up anything, even 4 or 5 yard 
test fires. That said, my range has bulletproof walls separating bays, which may be why it doesn't pick up
a neighbor.  Haven't tested that.

A note from the troubleshooting section in the online manual for the Xero C1

The chronograph is detecting shots from the shooter next to me.

It is possible for the chronograph to detect shots from adjacent shooters. For best results, you should always ensure the nearest shooter is at least 1.5 m (5 ft.) from your location.

I accepted Dave’s homework assignment in his comment to my first post.

I went to my home club which has a 50-yard outdoor range. The day was in the 40’s with a clear sky.  The closest shooter was at least 20 yards away. I set up the Garmin and LabRadar so each was 6 in from the muzzle of my gun for the shot.

I shot at least 10 rounds in each of the following types of ammo:  Wilson Combat remanufactured reduced velocity 45 acp, Atlanta Elite 45 acp, ASYM 45 acp, Federal Gold Medal Match 45 acp, Seller & Bellot 9mm, Seller & Bellot .357 and 2 groups that were my 45 loads.

There was very little difference in the velocity between the Garmin and LabRadar.  Average readings would not be illustrative. So, I tabulated the difference between the velocity readings on a shot-by-shot basis.  I rounded the velocity to an integer value for each shot.

This table shows the number of shots where the Garmin velocity was different from the LabRadar.

Velocity Difference        Number of shots
1 fps higher                        3
Equal                                21
1 fps lower                        43
2 fps lower                        17
3 fps lower                         4
5 fps lower                         1
10/11 fps lower                  2
Total                                 91

The two that were 10 and 11 fps lower were my reloads.

To be honest, I was amazed at how close the results were.  The Garmin was only a couple of fps lower than the LabRadar.

Fred