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Which one would you choose?

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chiz1180
285wannab
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Post by 285wannab Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:59 pm

Hi All,
Doing a little window shopping again.  I was wondering what your preference would be if you only shot inside at @ 50 feet. The Gallery course.
The three guns you could choose from would be a Hammerli 208s, Pardini SP and a Matchgun. And if you could explain why you choosed the one you did.
Thank you.

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Post by chiz1180 Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:34 pm

208. Grip angle is good, I like the balance, easy to switch between dot and irons and when taken care of extremely reliable. 

SP would be a close second but I prefer a more upright grip and switching from dot to irons sucks. In my observation Matchguns are the least reliable of the three mentioned, when they work they shoot well but they some complexities that don't exactly make them user friendly.  

I have shot all three and own the 208. However my "primary" 22 is a Nelson on a dedicated lower.
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Post by PhotoEscape Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:53 pm

My choice would be Pardini SP, - out of the three this one is easiest to maintain on regular base, least selective when it comes to ammunition, doesn't require re-establishing zero after cleaning, current model with parts readily available and Vlad and Alex of Pardini USA are great folks to deal with when support is needed.

Matchgun's MG2 is very finicky when it comes to ammo and prone to fire off battery if it doesn't like ammo.  Seem that SK Pistol Match is prefer diet for this gun, and none of the inexpensive ammo works sufficiently well.  You can forget about using Aguila SE and CCI SV.  Magtech SV was the most usable practice ammo in my experience.  It is not easy to maintain it, especially if cleaning in elevator area is needed.  It is current gun and Kangbin Chua is a great person to deal with.  On technical end he is supported by no one other then Jon Eulette.  Out of all three this gun has the best trigger.

Hammerli 208s - excellent gun and all aspects except when it comes to in-depth maintenance.  Two stage trigger can be adjusted every possible way and then some.  It eats everything you feed to it in my experience.  This is not current model, and sourcing parts might be difficult.  Red Feathers still have some parts available, and Jon Shue is you go to when gun is in need of more then just routine maintenance.

All three are top of the line guns, IMO.  I shoot a lot, and that is the reason behind my choice of Pardini.

AP
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Post by james r chapman Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:10 pm

Pardini, and you can easily add that .32 you always desired for indoor CF!
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Post by 285wannab Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:42 pm

My league is ending and I will take a little break.  I shoot a Ruger Mk II 22/45 now.  I cut the barrel down and it has a good trigger.  But I am trying to buy points.
Here is a couple of questions.  Do you think a two stage trigger helps?  I do remember Jon once saying "You still have to pull the trigger".
What about recoil?  I run the heaviest spring from Volq.  My thought is it drives the bolt forward a little harder so it comes back to center quicker.  But I'm sure a Pardini is much better.
I started dry firing a lot which helped bring my scores up.

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Post by 285wannab Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:53 pm

I just remember something I wanted to ask..I use a 1 inch Ultra Dot.  I also have a screw in len from PhotoEscape.  Ultra Dot has some serious reverse magnification.
Would replacing that with an Aimpoint 9000SC be helpful?

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Post by chiz1180 Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:06 pm

You really can't buy points, I have tried several times.

I honestly don't care if a trigger is single stage or two stage, It just need to feel the same shot after shot.

Recoil in a 22 is fairly negligible, especially when considering the amount of time you have to your five shots in timed and rapid, this is not ISSF Rapid. It is also a 22lr not a 44mag. People use recoil as an excuse for failing to follow their shot plan. You can not eliminate recoil, learn to manage it.

Lots of people like 1" ultradots and have shot well with them, same goes for aimpoints. The biggest difference is the build quality, the aimpoints are built better. I personally prefer the larger field of view of the 9000.
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Post by DA/SA Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:25 pm

285wannab wrote:I started dry firing a lot which helped bring my scores up.

Much less expensive too!
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Post by KBarth Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:17 pm

I started out shooting a conversion and then moved to a hammerli 208.  I would normally shoot in the 830s-840s.  I tried a pardini and shot a little better but had to sell it for personal reasons.   I tried a Matchgun MG2 and instantly was in the 850s for my first few matches, then I was in the 860s for a while and now if I shoot below an 870 with that gun that's a bad day for me.   People have had reliability issues with them but I believe it is 100% ammo related.    If you are going to buy and shoot a $2,000 gun, don't shoot the cheapest ammo through them.   It's like putting Walmart tires on a Ferrari.  My primary MG has 7500+ rounds of SK standard plus through it with ZERO alibis.   They are easy to clean... You remove 3 screws and the entire gun comes apart very easily.


Here's both of my MGs
Which one would you choose? Pxl_2019
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Post by RoyDean Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:31 pm

285wannab

IMHO the 1"UD is an excellent sight, clear and round dot. The magnification "issue" I never noticed. I have one on my Mk.IV 22/45 with upgraded trigger - it has and can shoot HM level scores. Best value for money 22 BE gun on the market.

I am very guilty of continuing to try to "buy" points, but, in my defense, I love Bullseye and want to use the very best equipment available. I have owned an MG2, nice trigger, the used one I bought had a major failure, Jon/Kang fixed it nicely, but by then I had moved on to Pardini SP, shot my all time best 900 with it and continue to shoot them well (I now own several Pardini's). But I continue to fiddle, I prefer custom Rink upright grips, Fronek trigger shoes and I now use 9000sc's on most of my Bullseye guns. Do the fancy extras produce higher scores - no way to know!

Pardini's are by far the easiest guns to clean and are, IMHO, super reliable. I have mostly used Aguila SE SV for training and Eley Bullseye Pistol X for matches. I shoot a LOT through the summer 6 months, very few duds or problems. Trigger adjustment is an art (and I am not an artist!), but once set are very good IMHO (Jon does not agree, I know!).

I bought an extremely nice David Sams built dedicated Marvel conversion (my objective was to use that for 1911 training), it shoots extremely well, but I cannot quite match the same scores as the Pardini. It is very nice to shoot and train with and is certainly capable of HM scores.

208S = "an itch that I had to scratch". A nice looking one came up and I bought it. CMM 1911 grip adapter + 9000sc. Shoots well, but a bit finnicky about ammo. Not yet given it enough time to be sure, but scores not close to the Pardini so far. Hard to deep clean.

YMMV

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