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What Powder???

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Post by fc60 Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:03 pm

Greetings,

I was testing some ammo for a fellow shooter and in the collection was a box of factory Zero 45ACP 185 JHP ammo, lot #20102501

I took one apart to see what was inside.

The powder is round, flat, and the occasional white flake.

The charge weight is 4.3 grains.

Any clues as to what Zero uses?

It did shoot rather well.

Velocity was 800 FPS

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by bruce martindale Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:30 pm

I have heard they used 700x in the past

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Post by DA/SA Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:45 pm

700X has an occasional yellow flake.
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Post by Caster3845 Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:40 pm

Hi Dave: I shot for Zero for a number of years and had several conversations with Fred (the owner of Zero) and was told by him that they did indeed use 700X in all their loaded ammo. To this day I still use that powder for the JHP. Only I use 4.7 grains. It's way more accurate than I am anymore.   Paul
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Post by SingleActionAndrew Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:27 pm

They told me 700x 3 years ago if I recall correctly. None of the ones I pulled down had colored flakes to compare. It looked like 700x but I read in large volumes the lots can be customized.
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Post by Caster3845 Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:37 pm

2017 is when I was referring to Zero using 700X. I do not know about after that. I know that during the first powder shortage, Fred was having trouble obtaining powder, so he might have changed after that time. I do not know what he is using now.
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Post by Wobbley Mon Apr 29, 2024 12:21 am

4.3 gr seems to be right for 700X at 800fps. It’s a tenth or two “faster” than Bullseye or WST in 45. White flakes (or yellow) are identifiers 700x.
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Post by gweber Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:10 am

According to my shooting buddy whom is a member of the zero/lapua team, 700x is the powder being loaded.

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Post by RoyDean Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:28 am

Interesting, I was under the impression that the "best" powder for the 185JHP was Vihtavouri N310 - as per the "USMC best loads table" that is here on the Forum somewhere. I personally found the USMC loads to be a bit stout and prefer 4.2 or 4.3 of N310 (depending on what my Dillon chooses to drop on any particular day  Laughing Mad Embarassed ).

Still got a lot of N310 at pre-C19 prices, so I'm not in any rush to throw money at 700X.

I think I sent a bunch of 45 ammo up to fc60 for him to play with - I wonder if that was "mine" he disemboweled? My remaining large stash of Bullseye is an 8lb keg from the Civil War I got from fc60! Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Post by BE Mike Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:24 am

RoyDean wrote:Interesting, I was under the impression that the "best" powder for the 185JHP was Vihtavouri N310 - as per the "USMC best loads table" that is here on the Forum somewhere. I personally found the USMC loads to be a bit stout and prefer 4.2 or 4.3 of N310 (depending on what my Dillon chooses to drop on any particular day  Laughing Mad Embarassed ).

Still got a lot of N310 at pre-C19 prices, so I'm not in any rush to throw money at 700X.

I think I sent a bunch of 45 ammo up to fc60 for him to play with - I wonder if that was "mine" he disemboweled? My remaining large stash of Bullseye is an 8lb keg from the Civil War I got from fc60! Laughing Laughing Laughing
Back in the olden days email list, Dave Salyer, who worked with Al Dorman to develop the "Marine Load", when I said I lived in a remote place and I didn't have access to VV powder, advised me to use 4.5 gr. of Alliant Bullseye under a 185 gr. Nosler .45 cal. JHP bullet. A club member stepped it up to 4.6 gr. and machine rested it at 50 yards with his brand new Rock River wadgun. The 10 shot group measured well under an inch.
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Post by messenger Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:48 am

RoyDean wrote:

Still got a lot of N310 at pre-C19 prices, so I'm not in any rush to throw money at 700X.


You don't have to worry about 700X. No one has it in stock. I have a new unopened lb of it that's been hiding back in a dark corner of my cabinet for years. I'll get to try it out. I too have a bit of N310 I bought before the Fouchi fiasco. One thing I have been looking for a while is trail boss. Is it discontinued?

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Post by joeangi Sun May 05, 2024 6:15 am

It appears that Trail Boss went away a few years ago. I called the company, and they said they were going to start production “soon”. That was like 3 months ago. I too have been looking, as I wanted to try a subsonic .243 Winchester round- and it is actually published.

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Post by fc60 Wed May 15, 2024 1:12 pm

Greetings,

After much testing, I feel somewhat comfortable in saying that ASYM 185 JHP ammo was loaded with 4.7 grains of N310.

The Zero 185 JHP ammo is likely loaded with 4.5 grains of 700X.

I fired five ten-shot groups at 50 yards with each of the above and some reloads using Zero 185 JHP and 4.2 grains of N310. I also found in my archive five ten-shot groups with home cast SAECO #69 bullets made of LinoType (185 grains) loaded with 4.15 grains of TiteGroup.


I used a Colt 45 Gold Cup barrel mounted in a mechanical fixture. This barrel has a 0.898" head space.


The results are as follows....


Average Mean Radius of the five targets.


Zero 185 reloads with 4.2 grains of N310 = 0.813" (730FPS)


ASYM 185 JHP factory loaded = 0.718"  (803 FPS)


ZERO 185 JHP factory loaded = 0.632"  (800 FPS)


SAECO #69 cast of LinoType and 4.15 grains of TiteGroup = 0.620"  (765 FPS)


Mean Radius???  This is the calculation the Military uses to evaluate lots of ammunition. It locates the Centroid (center) of the group and averages the radius from the Centroid to the center of each fired shot.

I bought some software that does all the math, and more, via the Internet.


Five ten-shot groups is informative. The smallest and largest groups do not occur in the same place.


More testing to follow. I have been experimenting with powders like 231, WST, Bullseye, and 700X.


Cheers,

Dave
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Post by Cmysix Wed May 15, 2024 3:28 pm

my father favorite load for the 185 SWC 5 grains 700X
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