High Standard Magazine Adjustment Advice

I've got the adjustment tool and read the information available on the internet.  Any advice beyond that?  I shoot CCI Standard Velocity.  I'm sticking with factory High Standard magazines.  I'm averaging 274 so far this season in 22, up from 263 last season.  Now looking for the 280's.

• Do the springs wear in your experience?
  
• Is there a difference when using magazines between guns?  I have a Citation and Victor.
  
• Seems the goal in adjusting is zero shaving of the bullet when entering the chamber?
  
• Seems the key is having the rear magazine lips just right and the front lips are much less picky?
  
• Any other suggestions that will get me just right without a lot of trial, error and frustration?
  

The front of the magazine has typically parallel lips that guide cartridge toward chamber. The rear lips are radiused to keep the cartridge in the magazine. When fed the slide will push the rear of the cartridge forward. The front of the rear/radiused feedlip is what controls 99% of how cartridge will feed/chamber. I typically only have to adj/bend those front feed lips. Opening/spreading controls how high bullet will enter the chamber. Open to wide and it will be too high or flip out. To narrow/closed and feefing is too low. Trial and error adjustments will get you there. Just a little at a time.
Jon

The original red bottom mags I have shot with NO trouble since the early 70's  in several 102- 104 and 106 and 107 guns measure


.795-.805 breech to rim release point.


The rear lip width is .187


The front lips lightly drag the cartridge and are parallel


The body width is .360



These were first adjusted by LtC Miller who learned he said from Joe Benner.  In my opinion the main thing on them is the taller front feed lips that retard the raise of the round.  The other thing necessary is the extractor must be set to make a good catch on the rim. 



These mags feed most anything Rem tgt to Eley. However some late made Remington has a large diameter rim and wont go in the mags. Remington has blown it in my opinion. I fired old stock Remington in a 50yd 900 with a Tournament barreled Trophy a while ago with no alibis.

High Standard Magazine 107 Military grip.

I would respectfully suggest that all the published specifications are a starting point. I have one HS factory original magazine that would not feed reliably with any ammunition; it presented repeated nose high jams. Four other HS magazines worked fine.

Got a lip bending tool and started adjusting the errant magazine. I'll leave it that the rear lip gap on that magazine is now significantly narrower than the "normal" specified dimension - but once adjusted to that point, it has never jammed again.

If it works, it is correct for that mag no matter what the actual dimension happens to be. Don't get too hung up on the "correct" dimension.

Thanks.  The advice I get on this forum is very helpful to me.  I've found Jon and TAB's advice close to my experience in being new to adjusting High Standard magazines.  It's not the measurement, but what works in the gun.  I'll likely settle on two original HS magazines, one red plastic base and one black metal base.  Both have different rear lip width measurements, but feed perfectly.  In respect to the other posters, I believe it's the differences created when the magazines were manufactured, (maybe material, dies, machine operators creating them, etc.)  Maybe if they were manufactured on the same day, the measurements would be the same.

Makes me wonder if Smith & Wesson tunes the feed ramps on their 41's.

One of the other big issues in getting a High Standard to feed well is how well the frame and magazine catch holds the magazine in a stable position. A lot of people wind up chasing the wrong thing.  If the magazine is rocking back and forth, working on the feed lips may not be the only thing that needs to be done.  

CR

On the photo above, I do all of my adjusting at the area where the .186 & .184 is indicated.  For bullets that miss high, tighten those up.  For bullets that miss low, loosen those up.

" If it works, it is correct for that mag no matter what the actual dimension happens to be.  "





Works for me.

CR10X wrote:One of the other big issues in getting a High Standard to feed well is how well the frame and magazine catch holds the magazine in a stable position. A lot of people wind up chasing the wrong thing.  If the magazine is rocking back and forth, working on the feed lips may not be the only thing that needs to be done.  

CR

I agree with Cecil; if the mag well is O/S the mag will rock back and forth while cycling, causing feed issues.
This is how I fixed mine and is 100% reliable.

Silver solder? It looks almost transparent. Resin?

Great idea, but I wouldn't use silver solder.  Too much heat required; you don't want to disturb the temper of the lips.  Soft solder would be adequate in this usage.

TIG welded using 312 Stainless rod and there is a little rust from me not keeping them oiled

Wes,  How much clearance is too much?  I have a 1973 or 74 Supermatic Trophy which I occasionally have feeding problems with - maybe 1% of the rounds fired. I am able to insert about .010" of shim stock between the back of the mag. and frame when the mag. is fully inserted into the gun.  Without the shim the mag. does move to the front and back of the magazine well.  The movement shows itself as a slight change in the angle the mag. and cartridge are sitting at in the mag. well.  Also why did you put the added shims on the front and back of the mag. instead of both shims on the same side?  Thanks, Bruce.

I have seen similar magazine positioning using epoxied shims.  The late Jim Barta described installing a set screw in from the trigger guard area to set the magazine back.  I do not recall if Barta included one from the low rear as well.  The idea is to stabilize the magazine as high and as much leaning back as possible.  Some HS frames machined before CNC and while QC went downhill got a little sloppy in the magwell.  Early Houston frames were just poor copies.  I understand Houston is better now.

shooter12 wrote:Wes,  How much clearance is too much?  I have a 1973 or 74 Supermatic Trophy which I occasionally have feeding problems with - maybe 1% of the rounds fired. I am able to insert about .010" of shim stock between the back of the mag. and frame when the mag. is fully inserted into the gun.  Without the shim the mag. does move to the front and back of the magazine well.  The movement shows itself as a slight change in the angle the mag. and cartridge are sitting at in the mag. well.  Also why did you put the added shims on the front and back of the mag. instead of both shims on the same side?  Thanks, Bruce.

Hi Bruce,
I read and followed an article called "High Standard mag fix" and there is no author on the copy I have. It may be the article Jack referred too.
I believe the old HS mag well drawing dimension front to back is probably 1.000" nominal since the original mags are around .980-.990", so your .010" shim means your frame is in spec....IMO.
The Houston HS I have is 1.020" front to back and was a lemon until I welded the tabs on the mags. It's 99.9% reliable now.
Wes

CR10X wrote:One of the other big issues in getting a High Standard to feed well is how well the frame and magazine catch holds the magazine in a stable position. A lot of people wind up chasing the wrong thing.  If the magazine is rocking back and forth, working on the feed lips may not be the only thing that needs to be done.  

CR

I just heard the same from several older farts at a match. They talked about adjusting the mag catch gap at the front of the frame .

243winxb wrote:
High Standard Magazine 107 Military grip.

I have this Victor model since the 70's. A few years after purchase, it stopped feeding. I probably damaged the feed lips. I don't remember. I do remember taking it to two separate gunsmiths with zero results. I finally purchased a magazine adjustment tool. That didn't work either. More research led me here. I sat in my living room with the magazine, dial calipers, and this photo.  I just returned from my local range after putting some thirty rounds through the pistol without a malfunction. Thank you for this post. I have a High Standard Victor again.

Google jim barta magazine shim and you will find his excellent article on shimming the mags.. he soldered shims on the face of the mags if i recall.

If you own a HS you should save all his articles

jglenn21 wrote:Google jim barta magazine shim and you will find his excellent article on shimming the mags.. he soldered shims on the face of the mags if i recall.

If you own a HS you should save all his articles

Thanks. Just saved all his articles. 

Bob

Great thread!  I have also saved this to my digital H-S files.

After experiences some feed failures the other night and reading this thread, I noticed one of my OEM followers is a little nose-high.  Are there any remedies for this?  It appears the kicker lips are too far apart to be manipulated into forcing down/correcting the front end of the follower.

"my OEM followers is a little nose-high." 

Bend the magazine spring.

Thanks for the tip!  Unfortunately, I can't compress the spring enough to withdraw the button.  It appears the spring and the follower bottom-out just shy of clearing the large hole near the bottom of the mag.  I'll take another whack at it later tonight.