Center hold and six oclock hold

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Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by Sheriff1962 on 7/31/2018, 5:43 pm

For both ( 25 and 50 yards ) , what are pluses and minuses of center hold and six oclock hold ?  Gun used  is 1911 in 45acp, Iron sights ,  firing 185swc match ammo.  Thank You.

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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by CR10X on 7/31/2018, 5:47 pm

No difference, IF you can clearly and completely see the front sight with the center hold (vertical and horizontal centered in the rear notch).  

For some people, the front sight "grays" out when using center hold and the perfect alignment is harder to see.  (I fall into that group so I use sub-6).   That's the only real difference.  

If your wobble is bigger than the black, the you probably want to use sub-6 hold to keep from "picking off" the shot. 

CR

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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by james r chapman on 7/31/2018, 7:31 pm

I took the sub-6 advice awhile ago for 50 yds. 
it greatly improved my long line scores.
bull on the post works fine for my 25's.
Just remember to come down 6-8 clicks....
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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by SteveT on 7/31/2018, 8:17 pm

Center Hold
Advantages
  • Feels natural to most people

Disadvantages
  • Can't see the sight picture as clearly except under good lighting conditions (will vary between shooters)
  • Can encourage the shooter focus at least partially on the target


6 O'Clock Hold
Advantages
  • If you have a very steady hold and if you have the mental fortitude to ignore the target it might be a bit more accurate

Disadvantages
  • You can't hold the gun still so the background behind the sight picture is constantly changing between black and white
  • It encourages focusing on the target, rather than on the sights
  • It can encourage interrupted trigger movement as the sight picture moves around


Sub 6 O'Clock
Advantages
  • You can very clearly see the entire front sight against the white background
  • Less distraction from the target moving behind the sights, especially with a deep sub 6

Disadvantages
  • Shooters don't trust it
  • You may have to move your sight down at 50 and back up at 25. OK that's not really a disadvantage, but it is weird.
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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by joem5636 on 8/2/2018, 8:05 am

For older eyes, center hold is best!

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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by RJP on 8/8/2018, 5:56 am

In my younger days when I shot iron sights, sub 6 has one advantage that many people are not aware of.

For 45 acp bullets, if you sight in at 85 yards (center of mass hold) the trajectory of target ammo is such that with a sub six hold, you do not require any change in the sight adjustment from the long line to the short line. The bullet first crosses the line of sight at about 7 yards and is about 4 inches over line of sight at 25 yards and it is still rising another inch or so at 50 yards. The bullet meets the line of sight again at 85 yards.

This works for a sub six hold because the long line hold under the target center is longer than the short line hold under the target center because the size of the bulls are different for each distance.

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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by mhayford45 on 8/9/2018, 6:55 pm

Sub 6 requires less mental effort and alignment in aiming. One only has to center the front sight, focus on the front sight, trust your subconscious and exercise good trigger control and reap 10s.  Much easier...

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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by willnewton on 8/9/2018, 7:51 pm

Nice comments guys. Even if a topic has come up before, there is always a new light shed on the subject from a different direction.

I like the ideas about trust (or not being able to) in yourself and sub-6 holds.  Blank target drills sound like a good way to match the lesson with the practice.

I usually shoot 6:00 with irons, but after our match tonight, I tried some center hold and was pleasantly surprised to find that there was a lot less analysis going on in my head of the sight picture, and much larger jump in trust that my hold and trigger would get me where I wanted.  Result was a nice round group.

I was wondering if center hold, when executed properly, is the a bit like the opposite of a blank target drill- a "dark target drill" or something like that.
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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by Al on 8/10/2018, 11:10 am

When I was still chasing points I was shooting a lot of air pistol. I kept logs of scores shot with center, 6, and sub 6. Winner was center by a few points over the sub 6. The 6-o-clock hold came in a distant 3rd. Forward 15 yrs and my eye's have deteriorated to a point where it's hard to discern the sights with the center hold in any light conditions other than outside in the sunlight and have gone to the sub 6.

I'd recommend you do the same. Try all 3, in various light conditions, and keep track of your scores. Your scores will tell you which to use.

Legged out in 03 & promptly quit shooting air.  What a dummy! Lately I think I should seriously chase 22 and revolver points. Time to start back on the AP.

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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by oldsalt444 on 8/14/2018, 7:14 pm

CR10X wrote:No difference, IF you can clearly and completely see the front sight with the center hold (vertical and horizontal centered in the rear notch).  

For some people, the front sight "grays" out when using center hold and the perfect alignment is harder to see.  (I fall into that group so I use sub-6).   That's the only real difference.  

If your wobble is bigger than the black, the you probably want to use sub-6 hold to keep from "picking off" the shot. 

CR
Most of the AMU guys use a center hold nowadays.  But us older guys would have a tough time seeing proper sight alignment against a black target bull.  Soooo.... why not paint the sights a contrasting color, not white, but say red, orange or even fuschia?  It would look ugly as hell, but it might work.  Anyone ever tried that?
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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by james r chapman on 8/14/2018, 7:25 pm

Perry's sun just washes the painted sights out.
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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by mikemyers on 8/15/2018, 4:15 pm

There is another disadvantage to 6 o'clock type holds that probably don't bother anyone seriously into Bullseye.

When people first suggested I switch from center hold, the reason I didn't feel comfortable is that back then, I used to shoot at all sorts of different targets, different sizes, and sometimes just a small cross, or one of those metal things that falls over when hit.  That means there is no "point of aim", unless you sight in the gun again.
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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

Post by LenV on 8/15/2018, 4:48 pm

I try for center hold. I find the sights at 6, sub 6, 9, 8, 11... What a Face
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Re: Center hold and six oclock hold

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