Let's talk water chemistry and stainless pin tumbling.

Here's the deal. I've been using the stainless tumbling method of brass cleaning for about 3 years. Lately I've been using a 45 casings worth of Lemishine and a drizzle of liquid Dawn with my unknown PH tap water. It cleans the brass but over time the color looks dull and tarnished, still clean but not "pretty" clean. If I have new brass it stays shiny after the first cleaning or two but my pistol brass that gets cleaned a lot get dull, I would expect my rifle brass would look dull over repeated cleanings.

So where should I start? The case full of Lemishine and drizzle of Dawn sure doesn't seem like too much for 500 dirty cases. So is it just my water PH? I really wanted to avoid buying water jugs but I guess I could try it.

Any ideas? It's kind of a cosmetic issue but when I tumble once fired brass and see how nice and shiny it is I can't help but wish it all looked that good.

Also do you think the brass that is dull now will stay dull or can I get it back to looking like new money,

Give it a try.

I use 3 tablespoons of Dawn and only 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine. Well used brass comes out pretty. Tumble 2-3 hours.

Wow that's a lot of Dawn. I typically run 1.5 hours. I guess I could do a 3 hour run to see what happens.

Multiracer wrote:
Give it a try.

Can't tell is that the consistency of dish soap or thin like car wash? How much do you use?

Top things that discolored my brass:

1. Too much or not enough Lemishine - I tumble 20lbs of brass at a time and use 1 tbs of Lemishine, 6-8 tbs of Dawn in a Large drum Biggdawg tumbler.  2-3 hours 
   
2. I didn't deprime before tumbling - in a rush I didn't deprime about 500 out of 1500 cases, brass came out dull
   
3. Didn't use hot water when tumbling - Hot water makes the Lemishine work better
   
4. Didn't rinse with cold water - this can turn the brass a slightly different color. IMPORTANT it's suppose to stop the action of the Lemishine 
   

They look good when I follow this.
- Dave

Lemishine says 9mm case full to 1 gal h20

Too much lemishine will etch the brass, not harmful per se but doesn’t look good. 

I use hot tap water.  From a municipal source San Diego City. Add one Tbs of Dawn and 1 tsp of crystal lemishine.  This is for a half full of brass FART and water to cover plus one inch.  Tumble for 2 hours, no pins.  I should see what the pH level is, my guess about 5.  It’s the pH that removes the tarnish.  Too much and they etch.

Hmm. I fill pretty much the entire tumbler full of water. So maybe 1/2 of the tumbler worth of pins and brass and the whole thing full of water.

Without any intention to hijack or sidetrack this tread, has anyone had any experience with using something like this -
Infante Ultrasonic Professional Grade Cleaner 5gal Capacity for brass cleaning?  If affirmative, I wonder if water and additives would be the same as for stainless pins cleaning solution. 
Here is the link to manufacturer's website - https://www.infanteultrasonics.com/product-page/s9
AP

I don't know about my water, but I don't use lemishine anymore. I wash deprimed .45 brass with a squirt of dish soap for about 15 minutes the drain. I refill with hot water and a squirt of Meguiar's yellow car wash and wax and tumble that for about an hour. They come out like new and don't drag on the expander die.

My buddy Alex has used an ultrasonic like the one you showed. He uses his FART even though he still owns the ultrasonic.

I found that using too much Lemishine will give you dull cases. I use 1/2 teaspoon of Lemishine and no more than a teaspoon of dawn. No matter if I am cleaning 100 or 500 cases. I fill the tumbler completely full of warm water and tumble for 1.5 hours. They come out like new every time.

Bill

Maybe I should just cut out the Lemishine all together for a while to see what happens.

I have been using 1/4 Tsp Lemeshine. I could use none. I wash with hot water, 1/4 tsp lemeshine and a table spoon of car wash soap. 2 hours, drain, rinse once and add 1 table spoon car wash wax with hot water. Tumble a minute and drain. Do not rinse.
I dry in a dehydrater. If I let them air dry, they get dull fast. If I dry in dehydrater, they look like new for a long time.
The wax makes them not stick in the 550 powder funnel.

Too much lemeshine makes for dull cases.

I have used Zip car wash and wax (all in one) with great success, but my wife owns a car wash, so I get all the soap and wax I want.

If I put the wax in with the soap, it does not do as well.

I bought the tumbler to keep lead levels down. Seems to work and my brass looks like new. If Iput it in a cardboard box, it would look like it was just shipped from Midway!

David

With all due respect, folks, does it really matter if the brass is shiny or dull, as long as it's clean? My loads don't look like factory ammo at all, but the brass comes out of the drum clean, without any carbon residue, and that's all that matters to me. Am I missing something?
Worst case scenario, if I want some bling at the firing line, I can polish it in a vibratory tumbler with corncob media and some Flitz.

I'm with JD on this.   Quality over aesthetics.   

I love the comment that I read on here (or on the BE Encyclopedia site) that a HM doesn't worry about a new competitor who comes to the line with brand new equipment, but they do watch the ones who show up with well-worn equipment.

If we aren't supposed to dress up a shot, why dress up the ammo

I am using the STM system and they recommend no more than 1/4 tsp of Lemishine. I think you are using way too much. I also use Dawn. My brass comes out looking like new each time and have been using this system for about 3-4 years. Why do people need to reinvent the wheel when the manufacturer's advice works best. Must be ego or trying to save a dime. 

Joel

Been cleaning all types of brass in a Thumblers Tumbler for many years using steel pins. Never had any dull brass after tumbling or over time. 

I just add brass, fill to about 80% with hot water, squirt in some dawn, sprinkle in some Lemshine and let it roll for a couple hours.  Then rinse in the tumbler with cold water adgatating everything by hand as the water fills and overflows. Do this 3-4 times then separate the brass and pins, towel dry, and into the toaster oven (low with door open) for an hour or so. Once dry I do some visual inspection and bag them up in Ziplocks. 

I do remember significant discoloring on one particular batch some time ago. Too much heat while drying was the cause. In this instance I put the brass on a cookie sheet and positioned it about 4” from the top of our wood stove. Left them for a few hours. They were dry alright and looked as though they were case hardened with all the swirling colors. 

Rob

Here is what I do in almost too much detail:
Needed:
5 gallon pail
sieve that goes on top of 5 gallon pail -
Amazon: GPC-150 13 1/4" Sifting Pan, Mesh size 1/50"
a more coarse grid could be used
4 liter water jug
Lemi Shine (powder) from grocery store
empty 45ACP case with attached, fired primer
liquid concentrated soap - free of perfume and dyes
I used all “Super Concentrated Free/Clear”
Platinum Series Rotary Tumbler; Frankford 909544 Amazon $164
Tumbler set - tumbler with end seals and motorized rotator
comes with 5 pounds of SS pins (media)
Wet/Dry Media Separator; Frankford  507567 Amazon $40
Means to separate media from clean cases and to facilitate rinsing
Brass Dryer; Frankford  909213 Amazon $55
Means to dry cases after SS pins have been removed and cases rinsed
Media Transfer Magnet; Frankford  909271 Amazon $14
Necessary to move SS pins from Sifting Pan and from separator
calibrated means for measuring a known fraction of about 1500 9mm cases
I use a plastic, transparent container that contains 320 cases.

Frankford Arsenal is a division of Battenfield, which is part of S&W

Use of the whole Frankford system has been found to be expeditious and of good value.
Here is the procedure that I use to produce very clean, ready to reload 9mm cases:
1. If cases are really dirty, I vibrate then for two or three hours in a conventional vibrator.  One can purchase cases that have been cleaned in a vibrator.  2.. The cases are deprimed using a very simple Lee press and deprimer die.  The Lee Challenger is sufficient.  The Lee Challenger press needs to have something placed within the large opening on its side or primers will not fall down the provided tube.
3.  The Tumbler is charged with SS pins (I used only 2.5 pounds of the provided 5 pounds), a measured 1500 deprimed 9mm cases, 4 liters of water, a 45ACP empty case full to overflowing with Lemi Shine powder, and a small amount of concentrated liquid soap.  The end cap is tightened and the Tumbler placed on the motorized rotator.
4.  Turn the dial on the motorized rotator to 3 hours and watch the rotation for several minutes.  It is common for a slight leakage to be observed that might, or might not, be cured by tightening end cap.  A slight leak usually stops after a while.
5.  Place Sifting Pan over 5 gallon pail.  Prepare a big jug of water.  After the end of three hours, the motorized rotator will stop.  Remove Tumbler.  Set on one end.  Slowly remove cap on the now-top-end.  If too much soap was used, see lots of foam.  Replace the transparent end cap with the grill-looking end-cap and secure.  Lift the heavy Tumbler, shake, and dump with shaking the contents onto the Sifting Pan.  Dirty water and some pins with come out.  Set the Tumbler down, pour in quantity of water, shake, and repeat dumping with shaking contents onto Sifting Pan.
6.  The last stage will remove some pins, and clean off worst of the soap’s residue.  Attach blue cranks into half of the two-piece sieve.   Prepare the Media Separator by setting the rotatable, two-piece sieve onto the box-like container having pairs of circular notches on its perimeter (and a little grill in one corner).  Set half of the rotatable into the outside set of circular notches with the half that contains a rubber latch placed over the box, which will ensure it is constrained from movement.  (The other half dangles outside of the box.)  Remove the grill-looking cap from Tumbler and slowly pour the (almost dry) contents of the Tumbler into the two-piece sieve.  1500 cases will fill half of the two-piece sieve.
7.  Slowly pour water over the cases with some stirring.  Lots of pins will be evident.  The objective is now to rinse the cases.  Water will accumulate in box.   8.  Close the two-piece sieve using the rubber latch.  Move the two-piece sieve into the central circular notches and cover all with the other box (which has a grill in its bottom, now top).  Slowly rotate the sieve back and forth using the cranks.  Pins will drop out and into water.  Eventually pins will be separated from cases.  Some more rinsing might be called for.
9.  It is now time to dry the cases in the Brass Dryer.  The Brass Dryer has five pans.  By hand, move approximately a fifth of the wet cases onto one pan at a time and then place that pan on the base of the dryer.  Repeat.  Place the top of the dryer on top of the five pans and plug into outlet.  I have found it desirable to move the top-most two pans to the bottom after half hour or so as a means for having the cases all dry at the same time. 
10.  While cases are drying, it is time to recover the pins and to remove accumulations of water.  Dump the water in the bottom box through the corner grid, which will keep pins in the box.  Use magnet to pick up pins in bottom of box and release then into the Tumbler.  Use magnet to pick up pins on the Sifting Pan and release them into the Tumbler.  Look for pins about the workplace and pick them up with magnet.  It is wise snugly to cover the magnet with plastic bag so as to prevent ingress of water into magnet.  Dump dirty water that is present in 5 gallon pail.
11.  Repeat steps if more cases are to be processed or leave Tumbler open to dry.  Store the several parts into their boxes ready for next time.

1500 9mm fit into an A1 Amazon box and cases are then sorted into desirable and undesirable.  . . .  but clean and shiny even the primer holes.

Before going to SS pins I tried a good size ultrasonic "cleaner."  Proved to be a lot of work and did not ever really clean cases.  Even tried some of Hornaday's magic liquid.  Parts sometimes responded to the Ultrasound.  One reason for the work load was the need to keep resetting the device's timer and because I had not developed a good means to dry the cases - used hair dryer with ear-plugs!

Mac2 wrote:Before going to SS pins I tried a good size ultrasonic "cleaner."  Proved to be a lot of work and did not ever really clean cases.  Even tried some of Hornaday's magic liquid.  Parts sometimes responded to the Ultrasound.  One reason for the work load was the need to keep resetting the device's timer and because I had not developed a good means to dry the cases - used hair dryer with ear-plugs!

Ultrasonic is only good for loose dirt, not staining.
To dry use an old aluminum cookie sheet and the convection setting on your oven at 180 degrees, 20 minutes the cases should be nice and dry.

Wow! Obviously, I'm not spending enough time, labor and $$ cleaning cases. A quick dunk in Iosso, rinse, tie in towel, dry in clothes dryer for 30 minutes(with permission from boss). Nice shiny product.

I was thinking the same thing.

Iosso is a new name.  This seems to be a link:
https://iosso.com/clean/products/gun-cleaning/

Into which of the Iosso products do you "dunk," and for how long to you "dunk?"

Do you deprime first before "dunk?"   Sure wish to read something about what the substance is.    Thanks