How much ammunition should I bring to a Match?

Last match I participated in didn't cross a border, and I only shot .22LR. So I loaded my tools, my guns, and put WAY too much ammo in the box.
No harm, no foul.

But to compete in the US I'll need to get a non-immigrant alien temporary import permit. So I see the required amounts as:
.22 2700 - 270 22LR
3 gun 2700 - 90 22LR, 90 CF, 90 45ACP
EIC .22 - 30 22LR
EIC Service Pistol - 30 CF
DR  - 30 .38spl 158gr

So maximums:
300 22LR (if the 2700 is shot)
120 CF (if 2700 and EIC SP are same calibre)
210 45ACP (if 2700 both CF and 45 are shot as 45 and EIC is 45)
30 .38spl 158gr

How much "extra" should I bring? This time I'm shooting .22 2700,  9mm EIC service pistol, .22 EIC, and DR so was going to fill in the permit application with
300 22LR
100 9mm 
100 .38spl 158gr

So any suggestions how much you consider as required for a match and any insight into what the ATF might consider excessive?

And no, I'm not over thinking this. I need to get an approved permit that lists the manufacturer, manufacturer's address, calibre, and quantity for all the ammunition I'm to bring in and I have to leave wit hall unused ammunition. And it's an offence for me to purchase ammunition once in the US.

I usually bring twice as much ammo as I would need for the match. Even if I don't use it myself, I can always help a fellow shooter who may run out of ammo or has alibis because of ammo.

I would allocate 150 rounds per “gun” for a 2700. So for a 3 gun 2700, 150 each of 22, CF, and 45; for a 2 gun 2700, 150 of 22 and 300 for 45. Add the required for the EIC, DR and other matches. If space and weight are a premium (or for legality’s sake), you could use up the doubled extra in 45 for the EIC and team matches.

Slartybartfast wrote:

And no, I'm not over thinking this. I need to get an approved permit that lists the manufacturer, manufacturer's address, calibre, and quantity for all the ammunition I'm to bring in and I have to leave wit hall unused ammunition. And it's an offence for me to purchase ammunition once in the US.

Do you not fall under the exception for being "admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes"?


"(2)Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;"

If you're filling out form 6 (I thought it was form 4; maybe that's for repair import, I can't remember), the usual recommendation is to write down way more than you will ever bring. If you think you need 150 rounds, write down 500 or 1000. If you haven't already, consult the Lost Target guide, it goes over everything (http://www.losttarget.com/form6.html). And then, why not bring a brick, just in case... Maybe there'll be a practice before, or an informal shoot after.

Myself, I bring 2x more than I need, and then a bit more (alibis, sighters). On a few occasions, I gave ammo to a guy who had forgotten his...

Bren wrote:

Slartybartfast wrote:

And no, I'm not over thinking this. I need to get an approved permit that lists the manufacturer, manufacturer's address, calibre, and quantity for all the ammunition I'm to bring in and I have to leave wit hall unused ammunition. And it's an offence for me to purchase ammunition once in the US.

Do you not fall under the exception for being "admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes"?


"(2)Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;"

Not sure which form you're quoting from, but this is the form I'm using:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-6nia-applicationpermit-temporary-importation-firearms-and-ammunition/download

No exemption. The only exception is being exempt from the general prohibition.

Thanks for the input on quantities.
I think I'm good for this time around. I might be trying to get a 45 to do 2 or three gun for the 2700 in September. So I'll need another permit if I get a 45 pistol and will put 45 ammo on that permit.
If this works out, looks like I'll have three good matches to go to each year that aren't too far away.

Slartybartfast wrote:

Bren wrote:

Slartybartfast wrote:

And no, I'm not over thinking this. I need to get an approved permit that lists the manufacturer, manufacturer's address, calibre, and quantity for all the ammunition I'm to bring in and I have to leave wit hall unused ammunition. And it's an offence for me to purchase ammunition once in the US.

Do you not fall under the exception for being "admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes"?


"(2)Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;"

Not sure which form you're quoting from, but this is the form I'm using:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-6nia-applicationpermit-temporary-importation-firearms-and-ammunition/download

No exemption. The only exception is being exempt from the general prohibition.

I was quoting the law that says which non-residents are allowed to possess guns and ammo.  18 USC § 922.  The form you are filling out quotes "18 U..S.C. § 922(g)(5)(B)" that says you cannot possess firearms or ammunition in the United States if:

(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

Then 922(y) says: "(2)Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;"

So what I don't understand is how you can be allowed to import and possess firearms and ammunition, but not allowed to buy ammunition in the U.S.  I don't think there is any such law.

It’s under the ITAR regulations regarding export of munitions list items.  Ammunition other than shotgun ammunition is prohibited from export without license. This applies mostly to the seller, but the purchaser also commits an export by taking possession.

Edit: it is apparently going to change for the better but how is not specified?..
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2019/1/9/viewpoint-u-s-to-streamline-small-arms-ammo-export-regulations

Okay, if I'm admitted for sporting/hunting I can buy ammunition for use in the USA but cannot export it.

Found a helpful PDF from Homeland Security:
https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=1621

"A nonimmigrant alien generally MAY NOT purchase
ammunition from an FFL or a nonlicensee
to possess in the United States. If you violate this
prohibition, you could receive a maximum of 10
years of imprisonment."
"THIS PROHIBITION APPLIES UNLESS YOU ESTABLISH
THAT YOU:"
"❖ Were admitted to the United States for lawful
hunting or sporting purposes or are in possession
of a valid hunting license or permit lawfully
issued in the United States."

Still all means I need to fill in a form 6nia for the stuff I do want to bring in. Nice to know I can scramble for more stateside if necessary.
While an interesting loophole for firearms seems to be to get a hunting licence from a state (any state) the CBP agents could take a dim view of randomly going over the border outside specific hunting seasons without a specific hunt or hunt related destination.

Wobbley wrote:It’s under the ITAR regulations regarding export of munitions list items.  Ammunition other than shotgun ammunition is prohibited from export without license. This applies mostly to the seller, but the purchaser also commits an export by taking possession.

And my understanding is that everything shotgun related is equally difficult/illegal to get or export. It's just a different collection of government acronyms in charge of granting the licenses.
And the Homeland Security PDF I linked says FFL and Department of Commerce export license for ammunition for sporting shotguns, FFL and Department of State, Office of
Defense Trade Controls export license for all other ammunition.

Bringing more than 105 rounds for each pistol to shoot a 900 is just adding weight. There is no match that it would be legal to shoot more then that. If you have problems in slowfire it could be more. But if you have problems in slow fire your already doomed to have a horrible day. So, 315 rounds for a 2700. 35 rounds for EIC, 35 rounds for EIC 22 and 35 rounds for DR/Reeves. You can add a little extra for Range alibis but not necessary. Someone always brings extra

Len