Big issue with 85 XTP and Pardini HP

Ok I waited long enough before posting this. I have tested and tested and changed and change but I keep getting failure to feed with every Magazine and it’s the exact same thing every time. 

After the 3rd round ejects the 4th round doesn’t go into the chamber! It’s 100% reliable and you can count on it happening. Every mag every time! 
I went from .915 over time down to .895
I tore apart my mags and cleaned them
I bent the tabs out on the mags

I am totally at a loss! 
So any advice is appreciated! 
I am at the range now and will call Pardini today or tomorrow 

Put in the 60 XTP’s and the pistol runs perfectly! 100% every time and actually has never had a malfunction

Figured I’d post a photo Jim sent me as well.

To help show his issue

That seems like a real extreme angle for sure.  I’m going to try to load some 85s today and see if I encounter the same issue

This is scary! I just ordered some 85 gr XTPs so I can test them next week for this problem, I will report with my experience. I did not order the last of the 60 gr XTPS because nobody mentioned this! I've got about 900 left.

I don't own this pistol.  Here is a theoretical analysis.

As a test - for weak magazine springs - only load 3 rounds.  If the first fires and it chokes on the second it is conceivable that the heavier bullet's case is moving the slide at a slower velocity which doesn't move the slide 100% as far as the lighter bullet. Then the slide starts returning to battery sooner than with the other round and that shorter time doesn't give the magazine spring time to correctly present that next round.  

If you can load more rounds (not sure on your magazine capacity) that might also show it is rounds remaining, not rounds fired.

A test for the slide velocity is to load 3 60's at the bottom of 2 85's.  if it is slide velocity, the full magazine will fire.

Aprilian wrote:I don't own this pistol.  Here is a theoretical analysis.

As a test - for weak magazine springs - only load 3 rounds.  If the first fires and it chokes on the second it is conceivable that the heavier bullet's case is moving the slide at a slower velocity which doesn't move the slide 100% as far as the lighter bullet. Then the slide starts returning to battery sooner than with the other round and that shorter time doesn't give the magazine spring time to correctly present that next round.  

If you can load more rounds (not sure on your magazine capacity) that might also show it is rounds remaining, not rounds fired.

A test for the slide velocity is to load 3 60's at the bottom of 2 85's.  if it is slide velocity, the full magazine will fire.

You are on to something with your idea but a Pardini doesn’t have a moving slide. It is a Bolt Gun and I know for a fact it is going all the way back because I can feel it in my arm and a little bit in the primers. I am leaning in the opposite direction. I think the bolt is going back and forth to fast and the mags don’t catch up. I am trying to figure out why it happens after the 3rd round. I am going to load 2 60’s then 3 85’s and see what happens. Pardini mags only hold 5 
This last load was
1.7 grains of N310 with a OAL of .895
FPS was 828 avg

Greetings,

1.7 VV N310 seems a bit stiff.

Try some Accurate #2

                  Start    Maximum         OAL
85 HDY XTP 1.6 612 1.8 695 18,800 0.940

Also, what is the condition of your recoil spring?

A new spring is 120mm free length.

Cheers,

Dave

112 mm

What is the spec

Think Dave may have a valid point here...slamming the slide.  That one picture with the jam is just crazy. I’ve never seen that angle on a bullet trying to feed!

Does a .32 Pardini use a buffer like the .22s?-Mike

Yep it’s the same SP lower with a HP conversion 
Personally I think the bolt is going back and forth to fast for the mags

Then drop the powder charge until the velocity is 760 fps.

760fps with an 85 grain bullet is the same impulse as a 71 grain bullet at 905, which is factory spec.

It did the same thing at 748

I had a box of XTP85 and plenty of XTP60 bullets in stock. I loaded up some batches to your recipes late morning and went to test with my HP32 (which I bought as a complete gun last year - not a conversion). Everything shot just fine with no FTE/FTF's. I forgot my snake and bent brush so the gun was a little dirty from previous several days practise with LSWC's. At the start of this session I did have one FTE - with PMC factory 60gr! But the gun was cold too. All of the reloads functioned fine.

I shot 6 SF targets through the chrono - had some problems cause it was VERY windy at my range today, but I will compile all of the results for your info and reference. Give me a little time to get that done.

radjag wrote:I had a box of XTP85 and plenty of XTP60 bullets in stock. I loaded up some batches to your recipes late morning and went to test with my HP32 (which I bought as a complete gun last year - not a conversion). Everything shot just fine with no FTE/FTF's. I forgot my snake and bent brush so the gun was a little dirty from previous several days practise with LSWC's. At the start of this session I did have one FTE - with PMC factory 60gr! But the gun was cold too. All of the reloads functioned fine.

I shot 6 SF targets through the chrono - had some problems cause it was VERY windy at my range today, but I will compile all of the results for your info and reference. Give me a little time to get that done.

Yeah post all the data please. 
Conversion or not they are the same gun so that should not matter

radjag wrote:I had a box of XTP85 and plenty of XTP60 bullets in stock. I loaded up some batches to your recipes late morning and went to test with my HP32 (which I bought as a complete gun last year - not a conversion). Everything shot just fine with no FTE/FTF's. I forgot my snake and bent brush so the gun was a little dirty from previous several days practise with LSWC's. At the start of this session I did have one FTE - with PMC factory 60gr! But the gun was cold too. All of the reloads functioned fine.

I shot 6 SF targets through the chrono - had some problems cause it was VERY windy at my range today, but I will compile all of the results for your info and reference. Give me a little time to get that done.

Well that’s refreshing news!  Thanks for the time you took

Sorry, I need to preface this with some background (Mike Myers will appreciate this ).

I've really struggled to achieve acceptable results with my Pardini HP32. I found that the factory ammo (which is mostly sold as a defensive round) is very snappy and it was hurting my elbow using the OEM Pardini or normal angle Rink grips. I got some "upright" (Walther GSP style) Rink grips at the end of last season, but had no time to test till quite recently. The grips help a lot, not hurting now, but I still can't get good groups. I messed the trigger adjustment up when I first got the HP32, a pal on the line in Oregon (thanks Chris) worked his magic on them, but I decided to send both guns back to Pardini over the winter and had them put the triggers back to "standard" with both set to CF pull weight. Simply so that I'd have a good reference point for the future.

I've been trying to work up a nice soft short line load using T&B LSWC bullets - I'm not getting consistent results - a separate thread on that will be forthcoming.

Then I read the plaintive request from Jim Hensler re' XTP loads. Happens that I had a box of XTP85's that I've never used and a stash of XTP60's which I've been using for Long Line loads.

My XL650 was already set-up for 32ACP, but for LSWC loads. I was about to swap out to another caliber anyhow, so I decided this morning to quickly adjust to XTP's and load a couple of batches. About 30 rounds each of XTP60 over 1.8 grains of VV N310, and XTP85 over 1.7 grains of VV N310. All other dimensions as close as I could to Jim's quoted recipe's. I checked the powder throw several times for each batch - it was consistently spot on. I may have under-crimped some of the XTP60's cause I noticed some bullets had pressed in slightly during transport to the range. The XTP85's all looked good.

I wanted to try to incorporate the testing into my regular practise (with an S - John Bickar ) and so all of these cards were just part of an extended 900 shot in the normal Bullseye style on 50 foot NRA targets, but my club range is actually only 45 feet. I set up my chrono on a recently acquired taller tripod which allows me to shoot through at my regular target array. Unfortunately it was VERY gusty winds today and the chrono toppled over after the first SF card. I then suspended a range bag from the bottom of the tripod and fixed the problem, but the chrono went a bit AWOL for a while (I now see that I got very few XTP60 readings - sorry, I will repeat again later). Never mind the scores and several of my flyers, but I've included images of the targets to get a feel for the consistency of the ammo. I suffered no malfunctions of any kind with the reloads - but did have a FTE with the first mag of factory PMC, probably down to a cold gun which was a bit dirty from several days of LSWC ammo.

I shot one SF card with factory ammo first to establish a benchmark.






Hope that this might be of help to Jim. It was good to shoot some JHP ammo again, much more consistent than I'm seeing with the LSWC. BUT, unfortunately, I'm still performing much better with my 45 wad gun than the HP32. Grrrr.....

Your speed is a lot faster than what I get from my chrono? Wonder why?
Thanks for posting everything! With you saying you didn’t have any failures that means I have a problem somewhere! Damn!

Looking forward to your cast bullet testing as well.  In your data above seems like the cast did pretty well.

All valuable info here and thanks for posting your results.  I’m sure Jim is going to be pulling his hair out now tracking down his problem.

JimH. Everything I’ve read about Pardini magazines is most people squeeze the lips together and not apart like you mentioned.  I was having a few FTF like yours when I first got mine and squeezed the lips together and not apart and have no more issue!  Might be worth a try?  I used a 9/32 drill bit as a gauge to make it where the lips would hold a 9/32 drill bit up to the front end of the lips....worked a charm!  Saw it posted on target talk by those having the same issue.

Good luck

Hmmmmm! I thought it was the opposite because the lips kinda held up the round from coming out. I am trying a few things today and will see what happens

Magazine springs?

Alex at Pardini told me to stick with OEM 32 springs. The story about switching to 22 springs only applies to early conversion magazines.

Yes I have the new springs also but that had to do with the 60’s and not these new 85’s. I have to change something and test! Right now I can use the 85’s for the long line and the 60’s for the short. I will eventually run out of 60’s so it’s not life or death yet!

James Hensler wrote:Yes I have the new springs also but that had to do with the 60’s and not these new 85’s. I have to change something and test! Right now I can use the 85’s for the long line and the 60’s for the short. I will eventually run out of 60’s so it’s not life or death yet!

I’m sticking with the mag lips.......

Ok I have the 85’s running but the groups did open up to the 10 ring! The fix so far is going down on powder to 1.5 and a drop in speed to 730 FPS. One thing I know for a fact is these bullets like speed to be accurate in my pistol so I am going to switch powder to Accurate 2 and see what happens in the future

A couple of guys have told me that they are not having issues with the 85’s and powder charge I want to use. So maybe my shit is just wore out and I need a new recoil spring and a few magazine springs