What is Bullseye Pistol? TargetPistolGuy explains

For those who are new or for those introducing people to bullseye, TargetPistolGuy just released a video giving an excellent explanation.

Enjoy
https://youtu.be/MA7qdmzsd3M

Red dots for leg matches?! Heresy!

Merick wrote:Red dots for leg matches?! Heresy!

I think he was referring to only the P100. Personally do not agree but I do see his point. How many people got distinguished and sold their service pistol or has left it in the back of the safe? In general I have noticed bullseye shooters making all of the excuses to not shoot a service pistol.

Merick wrote:Red dots for leg matches?! Heresy!

Scopes in rifle leg matches was once heresy as well... now 4x optics are the rule...

10sandxs wrote:

Merick wrote:Red dots for leg matches?! Heresy!

Scopes in rifle leg matches was once heresy as well... now 4x optics are the rule...

May even increase to 6x.  The new US Army issue is a Sig/Sauer 1-6X.  

I say open up Service Pistol to optical sights but make them open reflex sights like the RMR type.

10sandxs wrote:

Merick wrote:Red dots for leg matches?! Heresy!

Scopes in rifle leg matches was once heresy as well... now 4x optics are the rule...

*4.5x.  The factors were
-big army was widely using acogs
-poor vision correction with a rifle is not impossible but difficult

M17 is optics capable but I don't know that dots are general issue just yet.
With pistol vision correction is easy as wearing regular glasses (and really irons look better to me than a dot does with my astigmatism, but I don't have enough time with a dot to to have a strong opinion on them)

If its something proximal to the original intent and it gets more people involved then I am for it. 
If it turns it into a even more horrible gear race that drives people away or is an entry barrier that keeps people out, then I am against it.

Merick wrote:

10sandxs wrote:

Merick wrote:Red dots for leg matches?! Heresy!

Scopes in rifle leg matches was once heresy as well... now 4x optics are the rule...

*4.5x.  The factors were
-big army was widely using acogs
-poor vision correction with a rifle is not impossible but difficult

M17 is optics capable but I don't know that dots are general issue just yet.
With pistol vision correction is easy as wearing regular glasses (and really irons look better to me than a dot does with my astigmatism, but I don't have enough time with a dot to to have a strong opinion on them)

If its something proximal to the original intent and it gets more people involved then I am for it. 
If it turns it into a even more horrible gear race that drives people away or is an entry barrier that keeps people out, then I am against it.

Optics aren’t general issue(yet), but Bo-Mar sights aren’t either.

Optics aren’t general issue(yet), but Bo-Mar sights aren’t either.

Well, yeah, but that's different... (with thick sarcasm)

Time to do away with the .45 cal. match in the 2700? Just .22 and CF would make the match quicker. Maybe eliminate the 50 yard line and make slow fire 25 yards based on the current t & rf target. Move the short line to 15 yards?

BE Mike wrote:Time to do away with the .45 cal. match in the 2700? Just .22 and CF would make the match quicker. Maybe eliminate the 50 yard line and make slow fire 25 yards based on the current t & rf target. Move the short line to 15 yards?

This would be a bridge too far.

Wobbley wrote:

BE Mike wrote:Time to do away with the .45 cal. match in the 2700? Just .22 and CF would make the match quicker. Maybe eliminate the 50 yard line and make slow fire 25 yards based on the current t & rf target. Move the short line to 15 yards?

This would be a bridge too far.

Nah... then we could go to two hands, and draw from a holster to make it more "fun"

BE Mike wrote:Time to do away with the .45 cal. match in the 2700? Just .22 and CF would make the match quicker. Maybe eliminate the 50 yard line and make slow fire 25 yards based on the current t & rf target. Move the short line to 15 yards?

Am just a marksman, but I think I am gonna puke!

Merick wrote:

10sandxs wrote:

Merick wrote:Red dots for leg matches?! Heresy!

Scopes in rifle leg matches was once heresy as well... now 4x optics are the rule...

*4.5x.  The factors were
-big army was widely using acogs
-poor vision correction with a rifle is not impossible but difficult

The real factor was that service rifle / highpower is a dying sport with aging competitors, and allowing optics (under cover of "the military uses them") was a way to get older people with fading eyesight back into the game and paying match fees. Old farts and accountants at CMP drove this change ...

Wobbley wrote:

BE Mike wrote:Time to do away with the .45 cal. match in the 2700? Just .22 and CF would make the match quicker. Maybe eliminate the 50 yard line and make slow fire 25 yards based on the current t & rf target. Move the short line to 15 yards?

This would be a bridge too far.

If you want the sport to grow, you need to be open to other possibilities. In Florida, I was a member of an association that shot bullseye at 25 and 15 yards. A match would draw large numbers of shooters. I'm talking 50-70 and a family day with food, etc. Some thought that it would also spark interest in regular NRA 2700's and 1800's, as the better shooters might be up to more of a challenge. It never worked out that way, as the NRA Approved matches still drew the normal average of 8-10 shooters, but the association matches kept thriving.

I didn’t know this was here. Thanks for posting it Chris.  Hopefully the educational part of the video was something people liked and can share with the bullseye curious. 

Really appreciate the debate on some of my suggestions. I like the old stuff and if I were only to take my own desires into account we’d be shooting 1911s with Ammo issued on the line.  But, looking at it broadly I think the CMP should make changes to pistol to include new match formats and open up more room for dots in Service Pistol. 

I talked about this at length during my match recap today.  

To me, it comes down to the mission of the CMP which isn’t to safeguard tradition or “the way things should be.”  They exist to promote marksmanship education, teach safe use, and hold matches.  

The Ammo and guns we use now aren’t traditional “as issued” guns or even modern “as issued.”  They’re metallic wad guns. My service is fielding pistols with 3.9” barrels, red dot sight footprints, and 21 round magazines. Dots will be the norm very soon across the branches.  To me it makes sense to stick with the “service” spirit like rifle did and include optics in some way.  To me it’s philosophically consistent with the history of the match and also the right thing to do for the sport.  

Either way I’m still bringing a 45ACP 1911.  But that’s just me.  

Thanks for watching the videos. Please subscribe, share, and offer ideas for new stuff.  More good stuff to come.

As an aside, I personally notice many people who are are highly opinionated about service pistol rules, but even fewer people shoot it. Ohio had a State Service Pistol Match in two locations Canton and Fairfield, After the Service Pistol match Canton had an 1800. More people showed up to the 1800 than the Service Pistol match. At some point more people have to continue shoot it or it will slowly fade away, which is sad. 

After that rabbit hole, I do hope that people find the base information helpful to introduce people to the basics of the sport. A video like that would have been extremely helpful for me when I was starting out.

CMP needs to reward Dist shooters for continuing to shoot Dist matches.

I like Target Pistol Guy's videos. I agree with his view of sportsmanship and getting newer shooters involved in precision pistol. Personally I don't see what's wrong with some shooters wanting to shoot optics next to me in the badge leg matches. If you are a traditional type of shooter it shouldn't matter as long as we shoot the same type of firearm and caliber required side by side. If you think it's not fair then, maybe when the targets are scored and the match is over, your scores are put in two separate columns and competed by classification. That way newer shooters will be able to shoot side by side with experienced shooters and feel accepted into the group. I know from experience that most older shooters love to help out the younger shooters, and they won't get that if they are told they are must shoot in a separate group.
 Stan

james r chapman wrote:CMP needs to reward Dist shooters for continuing to shoot Dist matches.

Asides from leg points they send out gold/silver/bronze medals for overall match (sometimes that takes a while), as well as the match director should have gold/silver/bronze achievement pins based on scores to hand out that day, and there is the classification system to work on as well.

EIC matches have always been “unclassified”.  They’re also in essence a “hang around long enough, improve a bit as you go and eventually we give you the trinket” .  This may sound like heresy but at the core it is so,

But the underlying question TPGuy discusses in these videos remains.
“What is Service Pistol?”  
Well it no longer is the 1911 or any 45 ACP pistol.  Hasn’t been since 1987 or so.  That was 35 years ago.  The M9 Beretta that replaced it has itself been replaced by the M17/18.  They no longer issue 230 Hardball.  (I don’t even think it’s even being made for the USArmy anymore). They don’t even issue 9mm ball.  You get to bring your own. The USAMU hasn’t competed in Service Pistol matches with 1911s for some time.  The M9 is used. (The AMU is probably developing accurizing procedures for the M17 now. ) 

35 years ago, the AMU dropped the M14 rifle.  Ten or so years ago, optics came to rifles.  It hasn’t hurt the sport.  If anything it’s helped it.  Us adopting a “service optic” for “service pistol” will do the same.

If your going to add optics, drop the separate EIC , just use the .45 matches NMC match as EIC.

The USAMU hasn’t competed in Service Pistol matches with 1911s for some time.  The M9 is used. 

Plenty of amu shooters use 1911 for service pistol

dapduh2 wrote:

The USAMU hasn’t competed in Service Pistol matches with 1911s for some time.  The M9 is used. 

Plenty of amu shooters use 1911 for service pistol

The way god intended.