Why would one choose 32 acp rather than 32 smith and wesson long?

Hi, 
Newby with amateur question. 

Pardini offers both above calibers as a conversion unit so that your .22 pistol can be used for center fire. 
What is the logic in choosing one over the other? 

Thanks

DocDerm

I don't think  that it's  of choosing one or the other. 
I believe it's  so you can shoot the same platform for more than one stage of the match.

Docderm is asking the difference between 32ACP and 32SWL. Not 22 vs 32. The 32 SWL has been used in center fire bullseye for longer. There are a few good options for buying off the shelf Ammo such as Lapua, Fiocchi and others. There are no target quality rounds available for 32 ACP from a factory that I know of. 32ACP has been used for less time but apparently has better accuracy potential  when hand loaded than 32SWL. I happen to love the 32SWL cartridge. I like the feel of target load recoil and the nice round holes you get from the full wadcutter. I have looked in to hand loading it but so far have been happy with my factory loads and the cost of it. The only 32 ACP bullets that I have heard are accurate enough for bullseye are the hollow points and they don’t make the nice round holes. If you can, shoot both and decide.

Disclaimer: I don’t shoot a 32, S&W or ACP, for centerfire.

The 32S&W Lmtarget pistols were developed for the ISSF centerfire “Standard pistol” match.  It had been limited to “9mm” which meant 38 Special as a lot of European countries prohibit civilian possession of “military calibers” .  The European gun makers found that they could “convert” their 22 pistols to 32 S&W.  The 32 ACP was out because of its police use…. These pistols and the ammo are designed for 25 meters.  They do very well.  At 50 yards the 32ACP actually does better.  So the 32ACP fits the US “Bullseye” game better.   But there is no match grade ammo for 32 from anybody, you have to make it yourself.

The .32 S&W Long guns were for ISSF Centerfire Pistol.  They are often known for OK but not great accuracy at 25 meters...but the full wadcutters tend to tumble at 50 yards.  Part of this is the rifling twist, which is normally 1-18 when it needs to be around 1-14 or 1-12.  The .32 ACP was tested, and got some shockingly good results with handloads.  So Pardini decided to go into production with it.

I have found the 32SWL very accurate at 25 yards and pretty darn accurate at 50 yards. I am attaching a photo of a 25 yard practice 10 round string. This was me off hand and the gun is much better than my string indicates. was  asa[url=https://servimg.com/view/20174738/30]

I cant speak to the .32 S&W but I do have a love/hate relationship with my Pardini .32 ACP. I've worked out the 50 yard accuracy BUT the bullet I use has been discontinued by Hornady. My load is 1.8 gr VV N310 0.94" COL and 0.330" crimp under the 60 gr JHP of which I bought 3k when they were still around. My struggle has been getting the dot to stay mounted. The Pardini rings are frankly worthless in my experience. I tried the Larry's rail and could not get it to stay secure for 90 rounds. I'm about to try the Kodiak mount for aim point. 
I just shot a 97 slow fire at 50 yards today and the gun will clean targets easily with the T&B 64 gr lead bullets at the 25 yard line. If you do go with .32 ACP be prepared for a lot of experimentation…..

Hi, Orpheoet. Appreciate learning your experience. 
Why did you decide to go .32 ACP vs SW long? 
Thanks
DocDerm

docderm wrote:Hi, Orpheoet. Appreciate learning your experience. 
Why did you decide to go .32 ACP vs SW long? 
Thanks
DocDerm

First I am no expert on SW Long but from what I've read it has a well documented history of being suspect at 50 yards and affected by wind. The .32 ACP can be made to shoot well at 50 yards. Also bullets for the .32 SW long seem more and more scarce. Though the 60 gr JHP for .32 ACP seems to be extinct Hornady still makes an 85 gr. JHP that I have heard can be made to shoot at 50 yards. Personally I suspect I will probably shoot .45 outdoors for centerfire but the .32ACP seems like a great choice for indoors as the 64 gr SWC by T&B is lights out at 50 ft.

I am not an authority, but I have owned both. A Walther GSP in 32SWL. Both 5" and 6," Pardini HP in 32ACP.

With Fiocchi factory match wadcutter ammo in the GSP the bullets frequently tumble at 50 yards. Not good. There are some experts who have developed better barrels and optimised bullets to overcome that weakness (notably fc60 on this forum), but it is not a simple fix.

My best results with 32ACP have been with Fiocchi XTP60 factory ammo, but you have to "bump' the bullets to get the OAL down to 0.940" to ensure smooth feeding in the Pardini magazines (designed for the 32SWL wadcutter ammo). This ammo is 'assembled in USA. Fiocchi also sell JHPS, which is made in Italy. It is no good for target use.

Hornady factory XTP60 ammo is also quite good. But I got better results with the Fiocchi.

I tried PMC, Winchester Silver Tip and several others - all are made for personal defence - none of them produced good groups. YMMV.

All of the factory 32ACP ammo is "Hot". Beats the gun and your wrist/arm up with very sharp recoil impulse. I found that Warne Optima rings hold firm on the Pardini micro-groove with UD's.. An Aimpoint H1 on a Kodiak mount crept forward persistently, but I rigged up a solution.

Good reloads can be produced with Hornady XTP60 (currently not being sold by Hornady for reloading - see several threads on this Forum) or XTP85 bullets. Both are X-ring at 50 yards.

I did not get good groups with T&B 64 LSWC at 25 yards. But others here have done better than me. So it is probably down to reloading technique.

Not to derail this thread or to raise the ire of the 32 shooters here...but if you are planning to shoot full 2700 NRA or CMP matches, why not shoot a 45 ACP for the centerfire match, since you have to shoot one anyway in the 45 match. Unless of course you just want a 32 conversion, in which case just ignore this post.
IMHO, the advantages the 45 ACP offers both from the cartridge and pistol platform perspective far outweigh the perceived disadvantages (bracing for return fire, but I did start with IMHO.....)

TonyH, you pot-stirrer, you!

I have repeatedly achieved better CF AGG scores with my Pardini HP32ACP than with my 45 wadgun.

But. If I can't improve my 45AGG scores up to a similar level then I will never make High Master. So, currently, I have put away my 32ACP and am shooting the 45 in both CFAGG and 45AGG till I improve. Ho hum.

Roy,
Ommmmmm! Nirvana lies in the path (maybe?) that one chooses......
This other guy I know called Radjag made a similar decision and is the better for it, he tells me!!

The 32 sw can be loaded for 50 yards successfully. If you cast your own, Accurate makes a very good 88 gr "trash can" bullet which has shot in the 2" @50 yard range in at least 2 GSPs. It's easy to cast, coat and size to 315 and away you go. 1.7 gr bullseye with a tight crimp.

I heard a lowly Expert shot 6th overall at Perry a couple of years ago with a 32ACP! 

Other than that I’m reading a eating popcorn


Sir the answer to your question is wind! 
The S&W Long is barely accurate enough to justify shooting it over a 45 at 50 yards! Throw in wind and it will be a disaster and I have known several 32 guys at Perry shoot a 45 because it’s always windy at Perry. The ACP is faster and the projectiles cut through the air extremely well. On a windy day the ACP is worth 20-30 points more than the S&WL! I have shot both calipers since the early 90’s and the ACP wins hands down and it’s not really close!

I wouldn't pick the ACP over the S&W

rkittine wrote:I wouldn't pick the ACP over the S&W

Sir have you even shot a ACP?

Greetings,

Interesting comments.

My turn...

The 32 ACP is offered only from Pardini USA. It is a non-SAMMI chambering. Functioning is good and with carefully assembled ammunition capable of X-Ring accuracy at 50 yards. There are no factory loaded cartridges for MATCH use. They are all Personal Defense loads.

The 32 S&W Long ammunition can be purchased from Federal, Fiocchi, Lapua, Seller & Beloit, and others mainly sourced in Europe. NONE of the manufacturers offer ammo focused on 50 yard shooting. The ammunition is geared for 25 meter shooting.

With any commercial ammo, you need to test it by lots. Some lots shoot very well while others rather poorly.

For best results, you NEED to load your own ammo. For the 32 ACP, Hornady Jacketed 85 grain bullets are the only ones that shoot well. Cast bullets are hit and miss, if you source them from a Vendor.

The 32 Long only have Lapua and Speer for bullet selection. Here again, cast bullets vary in quality and most Vendors I have experienced do not produce a match bullet.

Swaging bullets for either the 32 ACP or 32 Long is another option. You will need to cast your own slugs for swaging the final bullet. X-Ring groups at 50 yards are common.

Since you are presumably buying a new unit, ask to see the test targets fired at 50 yards before buying.

Cheers,

Dave

How economical is it to shoot the .32 compared to a .45?

I don't shoot the .32, shoot .45 for CF but I have a Pardini SP and have toyed with the idea a few times.  Maybe I just don't know where to look to find the accurate more economical stuff. It seems to me that the cost of bullets with any decent accuracy make the .32 kinda pricey to shoot, even reloading your own, compared to cost of shooting .45.

farmboy wrote:How economical is it to shoot the .32 compared to a .45?

I don't shoot the .32, shoot .45 for CF but I have a Pardini SP and have toyed with the idea a few times.  Maybe I just don't know where to look to find the accurate more economical stuff. It seems to me that the cost of bullets with any decent accuracy make the .32 kinda pricey to shoot, even reloading your own, compared to cost of shooting .45.

If you don’t reload your own stay shooting the 45
If you do reload a lb of N310 will last you all year or at least most of the year. Hornady 85 grain HP’s are on the high side right now but hopefully will come back down to 20 bucks or less per 100. 1000 Starline brass will last until you lose them all in the grass so overall it’s not that bad

Economics of shooting 32 vs 45

Primers—costs are identical
powder—32 uses 1/2 to 1/3 of the powder. 45 (~$.03 per for 45)
Bullets — 32 has issues with supply, both quality and availability.  However, the comparable costs appear to be 32 are 2/3 the cost of 45 bullets.

So 32 is marginally cheaper, but 45 is far easier to load and requires about the same skill… 

Opinion follows….Bottom line, the 32 is a High Masters gun.  But you’ll likely find it to be fussy to load for.  Bullets are the hang up.

End of the day it is personal preference, shoot what speaks to you. 32swl has more of a target shooting heritage so if that is cool to you great. 32acp is more of the "cutting" edge in small diameter CF, if that is cool to you great.  

I don't load 32, but I do load 38 and as far as ease of loading, I would give a jhp bullet an edge over a full wadcutter. Probably transfers over to the 32 but I can't say for certain. Bullet availability is a different discussion, depends on where you are and what options you have available.

Wobbley wrote:Economics of shooting 32 vs 45

Primers—costs are identical
powder—32 uses 1/2 to 1/3 of the powder. 45 (~$.03 per for 45)
Bullets — 32 has issues with supply, both quality and availability.  However, the comparable costs appear to be 32 are 2/3 the cost of 45 bullets.

So 32 is marginally cheaper, but 45 is far easier to load and requires about the same skill… 

Opinion follows….Bottom line, the 32 is a High Masters gun.  But you’ll likely find it to be fussy to load for.  Bullets are the hang up.

You made me do it! Lmao I hate being an engineer! 

Assume you have the cases for both calibers
 
This is what it cost me 
32 ACP 14.5 cents a piece 
45 ACP 20.6 cents a piece

TonyH wrote:Not to derail this thread or to raise the ire of the 32 shooters here...but if you are planning to shoot full 2700 NRA or CMP matches, why not shoot a 45 ACP for the centerfire match, since you have to shoot one anyway in the 45 match. Unless of course you just want a 32 conversion, in which case just ignore this post.
IMHO, the advantages the 45 ACP offers both from the cartridge and pistol platform perspective far outweigh the perceived disadvantages (bracing for return fire, but I did start with IMHO.....)

When you say “why?” You might as well ask why there is Pepsi AND Coke? Some people like one better than another. I really like having a very similar platform between 22 and CF and I shoot the 22 really well so it transfers to my center fire shooting. I probably lose a little in the 45 as I didn’t shoot that gun in competition just before (in the CF match). But I think my CF score that was improved by shooting almost the same gun in 22 just before more than makes up for it. I find the 32 really easy to shoot.