Springfield Range Officer 9mm

First topic message reminder :

Last Winter's project gun. Started with a new 9mm SA RO from my LGS. Tightened the slide/rail fit using method 2A in the Kuhnhausen manual. Fitted a Fusion 1:10 match barrel, and an 0.001" over/under size EGW angle-bore bushing. Other EGW parts: ball-end disconnector, 0.200" slide stop (I kept the factory link...I could probably go one size shorter though), and enhanced sear spring (set-up for 4#). C and S parts: ultra-match hammer, super-lite sear, oversize hammer and sear pins, and 1-piece guide rod. Wolff recoil (8-9#) and 15# mainsprings. Rail (fits over the stock sights) and trigger shoe by Froneck. "Antiqued" rail finish by me. Tripp (Dawson) 9mm magazine. Smooth grips (from Amazon) that I then finished, then added the grip tape for my sweaty hands. It shoots pretty well, posted a target pic using the rail/dot in the Ammunition discussion under Ransom vs. Linear Slide testing. I load 147 JHP gr bullets (Zero, Magnus, and XTP) and ~3.0 to 3.2 gr. of fast powder for a ~875 fps subsonic soft shooting round. Only thing left is some trigger work. The C and S trigger is not bad, but I'd prefer a little less roll. About $650 in new parts (excluding the Holosun) plus the pistol. Roughly 20 hrs spent doing the handiwork. Interesting: fitting a barrel/bushing removing (polishing) small amounts of material as the barrel goes from being "sprung" to a precise non-binding fit. It felt like I was removing a tenth or two at a time (disassemble, polish, reassemble, check, repeat...). I was fun to do this. 1911's are much more interesting than AR service rifles.

Here is my 9mm RO with the 38 Super barrel with a muzzle brake. True conflict of interest. Light loads dont work well with muzzle brakes. Notice red dot mounted on Jon's rail. You don't have to remove either sight.

Part of the reason I wanted a 9mm is ammo is so cheap.  The gun shop that I used for an FFL offered me 1,000 rounds of Magtech 115 gr ammo for three hundred something dollars.  I almost took them up on it, and I still may go back there.  38 and 45 I can reload.  With the parts you sent me, I can now reload 9mm.  Too soon to say what I plan to do with this gun.

I bought the Taurus for a reasonable price, and sold it for about the same.
I bought the SA-35 for an unreasonable price, and will probably get back something that works.

I should put it up for sale in the Classified section, and on my club bulletin board, as an un-fired gun straight from Springfield.  They are selling now for between $750 and $900, so I can get most of my money back.  I'll have a test target, and it will be an un-fired gun once they put the right parts in it, with a 5 pound trigger.  I'm not sure if the new buyer can take over my warranty status, since the serial number has never yet been registered.  If I lose up to a couple of hundred dollars, so be it.

Back on topic; has anyone here used one of these?

Dovetail mounted red dot sight mount for Range Officer

LenV, I expected to end up with a gun set up like your photo, if I got a red dot for it, but this is tempting.

Dovetail plates for red dot sights.  I also have a Vortex reflex dot on a CZ P01.  All of them work well, hold zero. I have no complaints.

Wobbley wrote:Dovetail plates for red dot sights. .........   All of them work well, hold zero. I have no complaints.

Can I ask which mount you bought?  If I ever go for a red dot for this gun, this is what I expect to buy, just like on my Model 52 which has a Vortex Venom.

The Sig super barrel sold by CDNN and others is pretty darn good for a stock drop in. We went a bit further and welded mine up, then fit it from there. Shot nothing but JHP in it.. generally 115 XTPs. This was an project EIC pistol a while back. I had an identical slide and decided to fit it to the same receiver in 9mm. For the 9, I used a 1-18 KKM. Both the super and 9 barrels were a W/N ramps and the frame was a Caspian. Project worked out well as a convertible match pistol.

Mike, those are EGW for Burris Fastfire 3.

Wobbley wrote:Mike, those are EGW for Burris Fastfire 3.

This is the collection to choose from:
   https://www.egwguns.com/pistol-and-red-dot-mounts/mounts-by-firearm-brand-sight-cut/springfield/1911/?p=1

I have an Ultradot L/T in a box, not in use.
I've got two Vortex Venom sights, one mounted on one of my S&W Model 52 guns.
I've got another Vortex Venom that I can re-purpose for my Springfield.

Thanks for the information - I will likely call EGW again tomorrow or Monday, and order one.

I can't shoot my open sight guns as well as those with a red dot.  I keep improving, but it's likely my eyes.

This is the best I could do today, first time shooting the 9mm Springfield; targets kept improving, but I ran out of time.  I started at 50 yards, then went to 15 to sight in the gun, and used up the rest of my ammo.  The errors from the gun shifting slightly as I fire, I know I will once again, correct.  The errors from my inability to align the sights perfectly is another story.  I always do better with a red dot sight.  ......looking at all those EGW mounts for a Vortex Venom, I don't understand the differences between them - most mention Vortex Venom.  Which one did you buy?

LenV wrote:..........I'm heading back with a full set of recoil springs. It turned into a single shot...

Len, curious, could your issues be at least partially be caused by all that mass sitting above your slide?

I sent my Springfield 1911 "Target"  to Dave Salyer, who did the "basic" work to get the gun to shoot well.  I included in my box one of Jon's rails, and a 1" Ultradot.  Dave didn't feel I should add all that weight to my slide.  I figure he knows far (!!FAR!!) more than I do, and I would follow his advice.  

On Monday, I will be ordering the EGW sight mount, and attach my ultra light Vortex Venom to it.

In the meantime, I'm doing hours of dry-firing.  I've discovered that my grip was not good enough, as the sights moved just a tiny amount when I dry-fired.  After a few more hours of dry-fire, that is corrected.

Well, of course that is part of the problem. But, only a small part. I put thousands of rounds thru it without a glitch until I switched barrels. If I can't get it to run I will switch back to any of my other 3 barrels that it will run with.

So, with this barrel, something is hitting, or binding, or in some way using up some of the momentum, so the slide doesn't have the "momentum" to cycle as it should?

Who manufactured the barrel that doesn't work?

If you remove all the springs, could you maybe "feel" what is making it tight?

LenV wrote:Well, of course that is part of the problem. But, only a small part. I put thousands of rounds thru it without a glitch until I switched barrels. If I can't get it to run I will switch back to any of my other 3 barrels that it will run with.

Will Fusion take it back? The bore may be bad. Maybe try a new one.

Guys, there is nothing wrong with the barrel. I needed to polish the ramp but lots of barrels come rough. The only thing wrong with the barrel is I'm trying to do something it wasn't meant for. It's a run and shoot barrel designed to get a 38 super to make some magical high power number with less recoil. Once I remove the muzzle brake and change springs it will work fine with my existing bullseye loads. It is just not going to be the the mouse gun recoil I hoped for. With a 1/10 twist and micro grooves it will still let me shoot good group lead loads.

Wobbley wrote:Mike, those are EGW for Burris Fastfire 3.

The ones I need for Vortex Venom are out of stock - should be available again in about four weeks.
No hurry.  The longer it takes, the less I may want them, as I improve with open sights.
Thanks for the info.  

(Part of me still feels that red dot sights are "cheating".)
(Real men don't use optics....    :-)    )
(...and the bullseye record scores were all shot with open sights.)

But the guy with the MOST National wins shot dots! And over a lot more years than most of the others with open sights, if I'm not mistaken. Don't have access to review number of years from first to last Championship wins available right now.

The reason, I believe, that the records were set this many years ago is that there was far far more support for bullseye back then.  With all of that there was more participation and shooter development in the service teams. It had support from the ammo companies, service teams and the NRA.  They also had far more matches and participation.  A lot of the drop off in participation is other programs have a much bigger following. More shooting by more people and records get set, less people less matches and less chance to break the record.

Hmm, I'm looking at LenV's gun, and yours.  He's got a tube sight on a rail, and you've got what I'm trying to do, a small Vortex Venom sight mounted where the original rear sight used to be.  

Curious - for both of you - what was the reason for changing from open sights to optics?

Everything else being equal, I shoot with optics better than I shoot with open sights.  I think it's easier for me to keep the dot centered where it belongs, than to keep the sights in perfect alignment, which is at least partially limited by my eyesight.

For 9mm, which do each of you prefer to shoot with, and why?

Mike, I'm almost as old as you are and my eyes aren't very elastic anymore. With the right glasses I can focus on the front sight. My regular prescription glasses work fine with a dot. The tube optics are easier to find the dot in during recovery and less observed parallax problems. Weight of the sight is no problem with 9mm recoil characteristics

mikemyers wrote:Hmm, I'm looking at LenV's gun, and yours.  He's got a tube sight on a rail, and you've got what I'm trying to do, a small Vortex Venom sight mounted where the original rear sight used to be.  

Curious - for both of you - what was the reason for changing from open sights to optics?

Everything else being equal, I shoot with optics better than I shoot with open sights.  I think it's easier for me to keep the dot centered where it belongs, than to keep the sights in perfect alignment, which is at least partially limited by my eyesight.

For 9mm, which do each of you prefer to shoot with, and why?

A measurable deterioration in score.  With optics that came back.  Getting old ain’t for the faint of heart.

Mike, if we haven't killed this subject yet there is one more picture to show you. Everyone of these pistols is capable of and does shoot 10 ring B8 targets at 15yds. They are obviously not target pistols. And 10 ring groups at 15yds is not something to write home about. But, they are totally acceptable for EDC. My eyes don't like steel sights anymore so I switched everything to dots. Top left m&p 9ez with Burris ff3 (nice dot) bottom left m&p 380ez with ADT. (Iffy dot)top right Sig p365 w/Romeozero (nice dot) bottom right m&p shield 40 w/Romeozero. Some day I will replace the ADT dot with a Burris ff3. 
 I like the small reflex sights I just don't have them on my match pistols.

LenV wrote:Mike, if we haven't killed this subject yet there is one more picture to show you. Everyone of these pistols is capable of and does shoot 10 ring B8 targets at 15yds. They are obviously not target pistols. And 10 ring groups at 15yds is not something to write home about.......

LenV, once again I completely agree with you, and that 10-ring B-8 targets ain't nothing to brag about.  But the fact that I can't do it with certain guns most likely means the problem is me, not the gun.  

ALSO - Every one of those guns has a red dot sight on it.  My problems are with some open sight guns, and not with any of my guns that have a red dot sight.  Maybe I just need new eyes.......


On the one hand, of the people I've met who are aware of the SA-35, they are constantly telling me it's junk, and it's never going to shoot well.  I'm not smart enough to give up on it, but I put it off to the side.  On the other hand, the Springfield Range Officer 9mm Target should be more than good enough to shoot well, and after Dave Salyer's work on it, without doing the full job, it should put ten holes into a 5/8" group at 50 yards.  He tested it, and I trust him.

I never felt comfortable with my grip on that gun, and while the results are close to my ability with open sights, yes, at 15 yards, I want more.  I never have felt comfortable holding this gun with two hands.  The new VZ grips should arrive later tonight, so if I don't bleed all over the gun, it will be interesting how that works out.  This morning though, on a whim, I got out the SIG grips that I bought from you two or three years ago.  I didn't like them back then, but on this Springfield everything came together beautifully.  They are "fatter" than my regular grips, and much longer.  I noticed that I could hold my gun comfortably, with the fingers and stuff right where they should be, and when I dry-fire, the gun remains still.  I need to get back to the range and test it.  I still shoot two handed - my attempts at one hand shooting never worked out, and usually left me with a sore shoulder.

I don't know enough to talk about these things properly, but this gun with the standard Springfield wood grips just didn't "fit me".  With your grips, not only does the gun fit me, but I fit the gun.  Every bit of the gun is covered with, and touching, my hands, and with my shooting glasses on, when I dry-fire the sights don't budge.  I think I can now shoot this gun as well as I did with a friend's Les Baer Monolith several days ago - with the Baer (extra heavy) the gun remained still when I shot, and I got most of my 10 rounds one on top of the other.  I shot it better than I know how to shoot.  I can also shoot my own Baer (also with open sights) quite well.  

I guess I better just call what I'm doing "target shooting", not "Bullseye Shooting".  None of the guns you show in your photo look like something I want to buy for myself.  I like "Bullseye Pistols", and I like S&W and Colt revolvers.  I guess I should stop posting here, other than to pass on how my new VZ grips work for me - after what I read online, I'm almost scared to try them!!!!


Here's a photo of my Springfield Range Officer Target 9, with your grips.  I still have the other pair I got from you, and maybe I'll use them on a different gun.

I'm sure the problem is me, not the gun (although with the SA-35 nobody else at my range has been able to shoot it decently either).  

tovaert wrote:Last Winter's project gun. Started with a new 9mm SA RO from my LGS. Tightened the slide/rail fit using method 2A in the Kuhnhausen manual. Fitted a Fusion 1:10 match barrel, and an 0.001" over/under size EGW angle-bore bushing. Other EGW parts: ball-end disconnector, 0.200" slide stop (I kept the factory link...I could probably go one size shorter though), and enhanced sear spring (set-up for 4#). C and S parts: ultra-match hammer, super-lite sear, oversize hammer and sear pins, and 1-piece guide rod. Wolff recoil (8-9#) and 15# mainsprings. Rail (fits over the stock sights) and trigger shoe by Froneck. "Antiqued" rail finish by me. Tripp (Dawson) 9mm magazine. Smooth grips (from Amazon) that I then finished, then added the grip tape for my sweaty hands. It shoots pretty well, posted a target pic using the rail/dot in the Ammunition discussion under Ransom vs. Linear Slide testing. I load 147 JHP gr bullets (Zero, Magnus, and XTP) and ~3.0 to 3.2 gr. of fast powder for a ~875 fps subsonic soft shooting round. Only thing left is some trigger work. The C and S trigger is not bad, but I'd prefer a little less roll. About $650 in new parts (excluding the Holosun) plus the pistol. Roughly 20 hrs spent doing the handiwork. Interesting: fitting a barrel/bushing removing (polishing) small amounts of material as the barrel goes from being "sprung" to a precise non-binding fit. It felt like I was removing a tenth or two at a time (disassemble, polish, reassemble, check, repeat...). I was fun to do this. 1911's are much more interesting than AR service rifles.

To the OP, I cave thought about building my own 1911 ball gun with a RO but do not have the training to do so. What are you using to get an education in the process of building a 1911 for BE? 

Any books/videos you recommend? 

Thanks,
-Trevor

Here is the Kuhnhausen book he mentions-

The Colt .45 Automatic: A Shop Manual Volume 1 by Jerry Kuhnhausen (midwayusa.com)

And, Vol. II

Wobbley wrote:Dovetail plates for red dot sights.  I also have a Vortex reflex dot on a CZ P01.  All of them work well, hold zero. I have no complaints.

I have not seen anyone using reflex dot sights like you have pictured for BE. All things being equal, seems like a reflex sight will be optimal due to reduced weight and less surface area to catch wind. 

Are there any draw backs to using one instead of something like the Aimpoint H2? 

-Trevor